Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board

Parks, Minneapolis Public Schools, Density, Zoning, etc.
talindsay
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby talindsay » July 10th, 2014, 7:24 am

My opinion is that Hiawatha should go, Columbia should stay. The area around Hiawatha is ripe for growth; I think closing Columbia wouldn't be likely to do anything useful at this time but maybe in the future

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mister.shoes
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mister.shoes » July 10th, 2014, 7:47 am

Having golfed both Hiawatha and Columbia, I think the latter should stick around. It's got a greater variation in topography and far more interesting and challenging play. Hiawatha is quite nice (and a mile and a half from home!) but it has nothing on Columbia in a technical sense.
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mattaudio
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 8:13 am

I could see Hiawatha becoming a nine holer. But it should probably go away altogether. It was all swamp, build on fill dredged from Hiawatha and Nokomis lakes. It's clearly attempting to revert back to its natural state. I'm hoping to see it become more of a natural green space, maintaining the wonderful cross country ski trails but possibly losing the golf.

I can't imagine the neighbors would allow much development. The area that seem like a good idea would be east of Longfellow from 47th to Minnehaha (along with revival of the once-proposed development of the Bergans parking lot). This is an area where there's currently no housing adjoining the MPRB property, so it wouldn't lower property values of neighbors.

Rich
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby Rich » July 10th, 2014, 8:26 am

The popularity of golf has plummeted in the last decade. And attendance at Minneapolis courses was way down even before the flooding. Closing a course makes sense. Statistically, Wirth is the most underutilized. Maybe Wirth could be converted to parkland, with the area around the planned LRT station reserved for development.

mattaudio
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 8:31 am

Maybe MPRB could densely develop a parkland-locked 10-20 acres around the Wirth station area with a tiny stretch of Basset Creek as a defining feature (similar to how MTR develops stations in Hong Kong) and use the proceeds to endow the Downtown East park to be one of the best urban parks in the country.

go4guy
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby go4guy » July 10th, 2014, 8:52 am

One of the greatest assets of Minneapolis is the abundance of parks. Lets not start considering the redevelopment of any park space, until we run out of under-utilized land elsewhere in the city. We have way to much of that to be even considering developing park land.

mattaudio
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 9:13 am

But we're planning a LRT station (Golden Valley Road) in the middle of park land. Granted, I think that's a bad idea compared to an urban alignment. But if that's what we're going to build, I think it would be worthwhile to sacrifice 10-20 acres of former golf course, out of the viewshed of any existing residents, for a dense development that would simultaneously support transit ridership and fund quality parks in areas of the city that are lacking (such as DTE or the North Riverfront).

mullen
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mullen » July 10th, 2014, 9:29 am

i would keep wirth and thats it. what is the point of such large swaths of public land devoted to such little use. even if golf comes back into popularity, this metro is over built for golf.

kiliff75
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby kiliff75 » July 10th, 2014, 10:05 am

I think the greatest potential for any development of Hiawatha Golf Course would be converting it into some sort of more accessible park than the status quo. The area has quite a lot of potential, being located up against Lake Hiawatha and having Minnehaha Creek and Lake Nokomis across the street. Residential or commercial development in this area will never happen, check out any FEMA flood map (or any picture from the last two months) and you'll see why. Any ideas for the best uses if the golf course is closed?

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby MNdible » July 10th, 2014, 10:13 am

Minneapolis is also not lacking in general parkland, but trying to get the Park Board to divest land is a tall order.

mullen
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mullen » July 10th, 2014, 10:43 am

park board would still own this land. just make it a more utitlized part of the system. last i heard the golf courses were money losers.

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby MNdible » July 10th, 2014, 10:58 am

I guess my point was that MPRB currently has more park space than it needs, and definitely more than it can adequately maintain. Converting golf courses to general park land just because isn't great policy, although I'm sure that's what will end up happening with it.

In the old days, the golf courses used to be money makers, or at least revenue neutral. General parkland, on the other hand, costs real money to maintain.

mattaudio
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 11:20 am

But parkland costs less to maintain than a golf course, and it's accessible to more people. Imagine if half of Hiawatha reverts to natural/swamp.... that costs very little to maintain.

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby MNdible » July 10th, 2014, 11:38 am

I certainly wasn't arguing that they should stay golf courses if they're not being used. On the flip side, we don't necessarily expect that other park property turns a profit, so...

My real point was that, where feasible, this land should be sold off for redevelopment. But it won't be, because MPRB never sells land.

Meadowbrook may be an interesting case, as its non-contiguous with the city of Minneapolis.

Hiawatha's soil makes it problematic for redevelopment, but there's surely some land on the west side of the course that would be usable.

Wirth, since it's embedded in a larger park, makes sense to remain parkland.

Gross could likely be redeveloped wholesale, and potentially at a very high density.

Fort Snelling could be redeveloped as part of the larger Upper Post project.

MplsSteve
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby MplsSteve » July 10th, 2014, 11:55 am

Does anyone know what the minimum ammount of land is that is required before MPRB will consider creating a new park? I've heard that it's fairly substantial, far more than just a city block. I think as density increases in the city we really need more smaller parks scattered around than the really big epic parks that the MPRB always seems to be so enamored with. As an example, I have noticed that Chute Square across from Lunds on University Ave. gets an incredible ammount of use at all times of day. A lot of it is from the adjacent condo/apartment/townhouse residents. Yet the park board is trying to acquire more riverfront land near Lowry Avenue when they haven't even done anything with the old Scherer Brothers site. I know that for decades the riverfront was neglected, but now I almost feel that they're going overboard. When I look at the small seedy block across from Red 20 (White Castle, Holiday Station, etc.), I can't help but think that if it were made into a park it could be a real catalyst for even more development in that area.

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby MNdible » July 10th, 2014, 12:22 pm

One of the reasons that Minneapolis always scores so high is that they aggressively added small parks such that almost all houses are close to a park facility.

From this article,

Minneapolis received high marks for its parks system partly because some 94 percent of its residents live within a 10-minute walk of a park.

EOst
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby EOst » July 10th, 2014, 12:28 pm

For that triangle block to be made into a park, you'd have to do a lot of work to the streetscape there (particularly of Hennepin--cars move very fast through there, there are no crosswalks, and the sidewalks (where they even exist) are tiny. Besides, there's a park two blocks away adjacent to the Marcy Open School, and one maybe three blocks north as well.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby xandrex » July 10th, 2014, 12:50 pm

MplsSteve wrote:When I look at the small seedy block across from Red 20 (White Castle, Holiday Station, etc.), I can't help but think that if it were made into a park it could be a real catalyst for even more development in that area.
I selfishly sort of like that gas station since it's three blocks from where I live, so it's where I fill up. And it actually does a pretty good job of being "urban" for a gas station (if that's evenly remotely): the site is incredibly small so there's no space wasted on actually parking spots. And the convenience factor of if you need a 2 liter or a snack are nice. I could get behind it if there was a way to better connect 6th Street from the Marcy Holmes neighborhood over to 1st Avenue though.

I think a better idea for a pocket park of the sort would actually be the triangle sliver where the insurance agent's office sits. It's a small space that's largely parking with a tiny, ugly building. The block's primary purpose right now is sort of a dirty, not-so-great transit stop and place where police park their cars to loiter in the Holiday, but it could really be a nice, small bit of green space with a real bus shelter (or streetcar shelter/end of line if they were open to that).

tab
Metrodome
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby tab » July 10th, 2014, 2:42 pm

The Park Board's acquisition strategy along the riverfront isn't so much that they seek massive acreage, rather that they are trying to create the opportunity for continuous trails - something akin to the popular lake street bridge-parkway-franklin avenue bridge-parkway loop. Such a loop between Plymouth and Lowry, as well as further north to 42nd ave n. would be a great amenity for Northeast and North Minneapolis.

John21
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Re: Minneapolis Park System

Postby John21 » July 10th, 2014, 6:08 pm

Wow, I guess we don't have too many golfers in here. It would be shame to lose any of the courses. Many of us still consider them assets, as decrepit as they are becoming. Too bad we couldn't have put more of the golf profits back into the golf courses! Or at least some new range balls at Hiawatha. :P


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