Permit Parking

Parks, Minneapolis Public Schools, Density, Zoning, etc.
clf
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby clf » November 20th, 2014, 11:02 am

I'm not sure if meters would work with bar and restaurant times.

Tom H.
Rice Park
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby Tom H. » November 20th, 2014, 11:03 am

clf wrote:I'm not sure if meters would work with bar and restaurant times.
Why not?

clf
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby clf » November 20th, 2014, 11:12 am

Well, if the meters are enforced lets say until 2 am, what will tenants do? Run and plug the meter all night? Not very practical if you need to be at work at 8am. If the meters are only enforced until 6pm as most are, it does not solve the issue of bar and restaurant patrons taking up most of the spots.

Snelbian
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby Snelbian » November 20th, 2014, 11:14 am

Option 3: residents are exempt from having to pay the meters.

clf
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby clf » November 20th, 2014, 11:16 am

Really? I didn't know they did that. (Never owned a car.)

Snelbian
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby Snelbian » November 20th, 2014, 11:20 am

clf wrote:Really? I didn't know they did that. (Never owned a car.)
Not everywhere, but it's an option that can be used.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby FISHMANPET » November 20th, 2014, 11:22 am

I've seen a lot of "1 hour parking except with permit" and a lot of metered parking, but I don't think I've ever seen an area where you don't need to feed the meters if you've got a permit. I think it's a great idea and I don't know why it doesn't exist in more places.

Snelbian
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby Snelbian » November 20th, 2014, 11:25 am

I'm trying and failing to think of one currently in the Twin Cities, but last year a St. Paul Public Works engineer suggested it as part of a parking management plan at Snelling and Selby that was ultimately shot down by the business association because they worried metered parking would hurt them (I know, I know).

David Greene
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 11:27 am

clf wrote:My building in the north wedge has 38 tenants and 2 off street parking spots. Although many of us do not have cars, there is always a fight for parking with all the bar and restaurant patrons and staff. When friends visit they usually have to park 3 to 4 blocks away. I would love to have the little street I'm on to have permit parking.
Yes, it's true that the older apartment buildings (roughly 1960's or earlier) don't have off-street parking. I'm in the southern Wedge and we have fewer of those types of buildings. It's mostly frame structures and the few apartment buildings have parking lots or underground stuff. Some corner frame structures don't have off-street parking because their lots are quite a bit smaller owing to structures on the E-W streets that sit directly behind the corner buildings.
mplsjaromir wrote:our street should have parking meters.
I think that would be hard for people actually living there (constantly plug the meter). What they should have is parking coupons as discussed before.

ECtransplant
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby ECtransplant » November 20th, 2014, 11:44 am

clf wrote:When friends visit they usually have to park 3 to 4 blocks away.
The horror!

David Greene
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 12:09 pm

ECtransplant wrote:
clf wrote:When friends visit they usually have to park 3 to 4 blocks away.
The horror!
I mostly agree, except I don't think I want my parents walking 3-4 blocks, especially in the winter. Fortunately, we have the option of them parking on the slab in back.

mattaudio
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 12:18 pm

If someone has to walk 3-4 blocks for parking, it means the parking is not appropriately priced. If it was priced to ensure last-spot availability, anyone would be able to park on the block of their choosing.

David Greene
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 12:21 pm

mattaudio wrote:If someone has to walk 3-4 blocks for parking, it means the parking is not appropriately priced. If it was priced to ensure last-spot availability, anyone would be able to park on the block of their choosing.
Anyone with enough money, at least.

mattaudio
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 12:25 pm

Anyone with enough money for a car, in the first place...

David Greene
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 12:32 pm

mattaudio wrote:Anyone with enough money for a car, in the first place...
There are damn cheap cars out there, but point taken.

xandrex
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 1:45 pm

mattaudio wrote:Anyone with enough money for a car, in the first place...
The monthly cost of my car hardly exceeds the cost of my monthly bus pass. You don't have to be rich to have a car. Not by a long shot. Even when I drove to work, I never even remotely approached the supposed $9000/year to own a car number that's so often touted. That number just goes to show how many people waste money on extra car (as in, more expensive of a car) than they need.

I think a pretty good way to handle situations that are busy would be the meter/resident pass system. Pay a decent fee for the month or year, park without plugging meters. Otherwise, pony up.

LakeCharles
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby LakeCharles » November 20th, 2014, 3:47 pm

If you bought a car for 3000 and were lucky enough to keep it for 5 years, that'd be $600/year. If you only drove 1000 miles a year it's estimated it would cost you $1400 http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html.

So even if you were lucky enough to not have anything at all happen to your really cheap car and got dirt cheap insurance and never had an accident and drove under 3 miles per day, you'd still be spending $2000 a year minimum. A bus pass for a year costs $900, and you can travel as far as you want with no luck needed.

I mean I own a car, but I acknowledge that it costs me a considerable amount.

mattaudio
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 4:19 pm

I just spent $600 on new tires. Joy! But really, the point stands regardless. If there's more demand for parking than spaces on a block, a mechanism must be in place to distribute spaces. The normal mechanisms used to deal with scarcity are price or queue. Queue doesn't really work for parking - you can't just form a line of stopped cars waiting to become parked cars, as much as people try out in the suburbs. Price is really the next mechanism, even if it's not perfectly "fair" and equitable. It's really the only mechanism that produces desirable outcomes in an urban area. With pricing, some people may decide it's better to clean out their garage for their car, or get rid of their second car, or possibly even rent out extra garage space to a neighbor. And of course one of the tenets of Shoup and his Shoupistas is that revenue should go to a hyperlocal special services district that enhances that particular place for everyone, not just drivers (instead of becoming a slush fund for a local government).

mulad
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby mulad » December 5th, 2014, 5:42 pm

Repairs are needed at unexpected intervals, something that my wallet had been reminded of this past month. Agreed on insurance, which probably remains my biggest operating cost.

mattaudio
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Re: Permit Parking

Postby mattaudio » December 9th, 2014, 10:44 am

I wanted a record of the Locavore / Oaks Station Place outcome on this Permit Parking thread.
Realstreets wrote:Locavore backed out. Their bank wouldn't give them a loan without more parking and since the streets surrounding the site are permit, that was a no-go. On a side note the city is revisiting the permit parking policy on residential streets.
So are those residents happy that they can park on their quiet streets, even at the expense of a restaurant that enhances their livability and would likely increase their property values?

Also, commercial loan underwriting needs to get with the times apparently.


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