urbanMSP

Value down 3%
Taxes down 5%
Lyndale Neighborhood

Got the notice for the condo we no longer own. Market value was up (not sure what the percentage was) but it's still way below what we just sold it for. I have no idea where they get their market value numbers. In fact it's about what I paid for it 5 years ago.

Taxes down 0.7%.

Market value up 15%
Taxes up 9.5%

That's a lot. We've not done any improvements either. I'm surprised I haven't seen more coverage regarding the hikes. Maybe we're unusual.

If you don't mind me asking, what neighborhood are you in?

We're in the Kingfield neighborhood. Maybe it's all the nice restaurants popping up around on Nicollet that are increasing our market value so much. I dunno. It's a big jump. Mkt value up 35K. Our house isn't that nice.

I'm in Kingfield as well. And my girlfriend owns quite possibly THE smallest house in East Harriet (so % swings may be bigger). Maybe it's just location...

South Field representing!

Value up 21.9%, due largely, I have to assume, to the fact that we finished our basement in summer '14. The assessor stopped over this past winter to check it out.

Taxes up 15.6%, a bargain in that light.

As a homeowner who has no intention of moving and would rather improve this house than buy something bigger elsewhere, I completely get the distinction between taxing land vs. improvements. Putting money into our home so we can stay in a location we love is costing us an extra $530 next year. Huh.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wait, you let the assessor in your house?? Never do that... until sale time.

It's not always bad to let the assessor in. As they say, "If we don't come in to see it, we'll have to assume you put a swimming pool in your basement."

Another Kingfield data point:

Market value up 15%
Taxes up 11.9%

More anecdata from CARAG:

Taxable Market Value up 6.4% (most because the city now thinks I'm Res-Non-Homestead)
Total Taxes up 0.8%
City taxes down 0.25%

The assessor came by 2 months ago and asked if we had any new things inside. I said no because the bathroom we added upstairs (formerly an overly large bedroom) hadn't passed final inspection yet. So I assume next year we'll go up a bit.

How can we say no when we've opened and closed an expensive building permit with the city?

How can we say no when we've opened and closed an expensive building permit with the city?

It's my understanding that you can still deny entrance. The only problem with that is that the assessor then has to guess and the guess may not be in your favor. To contest it, you must let them in.

I had no idea. That's good to know. Ultimately, I'm happy to improve my home, happy to live in MPLS/Hennepin Cty, and happy to pay property taxes for the good of the city. I don't like that I'm penalized(?) for making the city better, but that's how the property tax system is set up at the moment.

Even if property taxes were reformed, there'd still likely be a fairly significant portion calculated based on the structure/improvements vs. land. Right now the land value weight is fairly low, but even if it was 50%, adding a bedroom or bathroom or finishing a basement would bump up TMV, and therefore taxes. And that probably makes sense - if I add a bedroom and bathroom to my house, it's fairly likely I'm adding more people to my household and therefore consuming more city services (like schools, parks, etc), so there's some logic there. Same if I added an ADU. What doesn't make sense is paying more for nicer finishes, landscaping, etc. I'm with you on everything you said, though.

Except we like to make our taxes as progressive as we can, so charging more for a house with fancy expensive finishes probably roughly correlates with the ability to pay those taxes (obviously it's not a perfect correlation).

Remember, taxes are not fees -- there is not a correlation between the use of services and how much one pays in taxes.

Except we like to make our taxes as progressive as we can, so charging more for a house with fancy expensive finishes probably roughly correlates with the ability to pay those taxes (obviously it's not a perfect correlation).

Remember, taxes are not fees -- there is not a correlation between the use of services and how much one pays in taxes.

Not when you DIY though. Although maybe people hire everything out these days. I don't think taxes should go up for cosmetic changes. Structure changes, OK, but not for personal preferences. It's so subjective.

...if I add a bedroom and bathroom to my house, it's fairly likely I'm adding more people to my household and therefore consuming more city services (like schools, parks, etc), so there's some logic there.

That brings a lot of clarity to why I feel the way I do w/r/t not really minding the increase in my taxes. We have wanted to finish our basement from the day we moved in, but it wasn't until we found out baby.shoes was on the way that we decided the time was right to get it done. And I must say, given that previously the only shower in the house was on the main floor directly next to the baby's room, having one in the basement now is a morning-saver. Not to mention having a carpeted basement family room for him to play and a clean laundry space... without the 50% increase in household density last summer, we probably wouldn't be talking about our increase in property taxes right now.

More reason to go to a land value tax. And there are plenty of reasons why the current improvement-heavy property tax calculation is far from progressive in terms of outcomes.

Yes, as I noted, property tax is an imperfectly progressive tax. But increasing the land value impact on property taxes would seem to make it less progressive, not more.

I would be curious to hear why you think taxing only land value would make property taxes less progressive.

Because the owners of a modest 1 BR home on a $75,000 piece of property would be paying the same property taxes as a fancy 4BR home on a similar piece of property next door. Clearly, a home's value isn't directly correlated to the ability of the owner to pay property taxes... but the two aren't unrelated either.

I get all of the theoretical advantages to the land value tax, and I'd love to see it explored more as an idea. But it will have some negative impacts that don't get talked about much.