Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Parks, Minneapolis Public Schools, Density, Zoning, etc.
hiawather
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby hiawather » September 19th, 2018, 3:55 pm

MNdible wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 2:59 pm
FISHMANPET wrote:
September 19th, 2018, 2:00 pm
Mndible keeps saying "elected officials" but it's not the elected officials that hired a PR team it's planning staff.
If in fact it was bureaucrats who hired the PR firm without approval from elected officials, that's not better -- it's much much worse.
I don't automatically agree that this is worse without any kind of reasoning why it's worse.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby mplsjaromir » September 19th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Lol. The CIA demanded to rewrite a scene in the film “Meet the Fockers”, but people are upset because a professional messaging firm is being used to clarify and contexualize a complex planning issue?

The government outsources PR work all the time, the US military which is entirely an unelected bureaucracy, in aggregate would be the largest PR client in the country.

I’m sure someone can come up with some clever hair splitting as to why military PR is justified but PR for the 2040 comp plan is not.

twincitizen
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby twincitizen » September 19th, 2018, 9:02 pm

I generally agree with MNdible on this forum, but I can't do that here. It seems like you're drawing a fine line between the City (staff) just doing a better job of explaining the plan vs. hiring a 3rd-party vendor to do the explaining. I don't see a difference. The elected officials that support the plan (or support most of it) would presumably be on board with doing better PR (again, whether the staff persons are internal or external) on the final push over the next 2 months. Also, if you can call what the PR firm is hired to do "explaining" vs. "selling", does that make it any easier to swallow?

Zoning, eminent domain, and 'how development works' are clearly not well understood by the average joe/joanne, which becomes readily apparent once you've attended or watched a few public hearings. Most laypeople have a very poor understanding of "what city government does" vs. "what the private market does" when it comes to damn near everything. Way too many idiots believe the city decides exactly where and how many Subway restaurants we have, and that "the city" is building this, that, and the other thing, when it is almost entirely the private sector. As said above, a bunch of half-informed folks actually believe that their neighborhoods are going to change overnight, by the force of government. For my money, the City (CPED staff and Council) have a responsibility to clear the air and educate the masses who do not understand how all this shit works. Not to "sell" the plan to those who don't want it, but to explain the general concepts of planning/zoning/development in a way that will hopefully open more minds (or at least quiet their worst fears).

(As I've probably just demonstrated) I can't say it any better, so "ditto" to pretty much everything hiawather said above.

QuietBlue
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby QuietBlue » September 20th, 2018, 8:49 am

I'm not sure if this is a question of can so much as it is a question of should. I understand the tactical reason for hiring a communications firm, and I think they have the right to do so, but I also think it will feed right into the narrative being pushed by the plan's opponents that the city is out of touch and doesn't care what residents think.

I also don't think it's fair to assume that everyone opposed to the plan it is doing so because of the BS being pushed by the people going on about eminent domain and bulldozing. I think there are plenty of people who know the truth about what's in the plan and still don't support it, or at least not the way it was originally presented.

Personally, I think the plan is a good idea, but I don't live in Minneapolis and thus it's not me that has to deal with it.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby FISHMANPET » September 20th, 2018, 10:09 am

Look, people are out here with serious faces saying the city is going to steal your land and demolish your house, and that no outreach was done to the public. These aren't the kinds of things you can have opinions on, these are falsifiable facts. The 2040 debate has clearly gone off the rails because people are deliberately and intentionally spreading lies. It's totally reasonable for the city to hire a PR firm.

Also interesting Mndible to say that you think there are times when elected leaders should show vision and lead their constituents, but HOW CONVENIENT that in the face of a climate and housing crisis that somehow allowing a duplex or triplex or fourplex next door is just unconscionable, and that since you disagree with 2040 that it's so obvious why nobody should try and sell the plan.

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby amiller92 » September 20th, 2018, 10:25 am

Right. Lisa McDonald also said, "they only talked to the people they hand picked to talk to" (paraphrase). Right after saying there were 10,000 comments and ignoring tons (more than a hundred) meetings open to the public. She should know she's lying.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby xandrex » September 20th, 2018, 10:26 am

I think the hiring on a communications shop for 2040 really depends on what exactly their contract spells out what they do.

Anyone who has ever worked at or with a comms agency knows that a lot of times they're hired to interface with internal comms teams to expand capacity. Internal teams are usually swamped and just need to pass off specific work to a team that can focus on it (and make it look visually prettier). Trust me, it's a lot of sorting of spreadsheets, drafting PowerPoint decks, and sifting media coverage.

So essentially any education campaign or spelling out what's actually in the plan and why the people who put it together think it's good seems...fine? It's literally what internal comms staff would be doing if they could. Where you would draw the line is likely on specific lobbying and advocacy for approval of the plan (this wouldn't be staff's job). A lot of people hear "PR firm" and seem to automatically be thinking along these lines, but most of what I've read doesn't indicate that.

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby MNdible » September 20th, 2018, 11:37 am

FISHMANPET wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 10:09 am
Also interesting Mndible to say that you think there are times when elected leaders should show vision and lead their constituents, but HOW CONVENIENT that in the face of a climate and housing crisis that somehow allowing a duplex or triplex or fourplex next door is just unconscionable, and that since you disagree with 2040 that it's so obvious why nobody should try and sell the plan.
Interesting, BUT NOT SURPRISING, that you assume you know my opinions on the 2040 plan and choose to make an ad hominem attack.

hiawather
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby hiawather » September 20th, 2018, 11:56 am

Can we choose to spend as much time and energy as possible in substantive discussion rather than lodging or responding to personal attacks?
I also don't think it's fair to assume that everyone opposed to the plan it is doing so because of the BS being pushed by the people going on about eminent domain and bulldozing.
100% agree with you here, hopefully nothing I wrote in any of my posts implied that I believe otherwise but sometimes when you're* writing you put things in such a way that they don't reflect your thoughts because the words get away from you (* by 'you' I don't mean anyone in particular but all of us in general as individuals). I'm sure there are valid suggestions and objections to the Mpls 2040 plan. I'm sure it could be made better. Unfortunately, they- much like the actual facts about what Mpls 2040 comprises- are drowned out by misinformation and fear campaigning. I don't think it's even arguable that a representative democracy such as the one we live in can survive without a greater degree of honesty in public debate than we are seeing now.

schwinnletour
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby schwinnletour » September 20th, 2018, 1:08 pm

On October 11th at 7pm, Linea Palmisano is holding the 2040 second draft plan discussion at the Lynnhurst Community Center @ 50th St and W. Minnehaha Parkway.

In May Ms. Palmisano did a community discussion at SW High School she stated that she did not endorse what was in the plan and the speakers with the mic were 100% anti 2040 plan (with the exception of Ms. Worthington).

I recommend anybody in favor of providing balanced opposition to the collective group speak go to this meeting and speak up.

Ward 13 is ground zero for the Bulldoze signs. This location is on the lovely Minnehaha trail that connects to the chain of lakes and there is usually pretty good free pizza and cookies.

https://www.facebook.com/events/486868545116013/

LakeCharles
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby LakeCharles » September 20th, 2018, 1:13 pm

I don't understand the distinctions here. A common complaint among those opposed to the plan was that no outreach was done. Which I would take as "Please do more outreach." Now the city, listening to that criticism, is hiring a firm to help with outreach. And that's bad?

They spent untold time and money to develop this plan. They now want to make sure everyone knows about the plan before it is voted into law. This seems like a good thing.

dingo
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby dingo » September 24th, 2018, 9:18 am

LakeCharles wrote:
September 20th, 2018, 1:13 pm
I don't understand the distinctions here. A common complaint among those opposed to the plan was that no outreach was done. Which I would take as "Please do more outreach." Now the city, listening to that criticism, is hiring a firm to help with outreach. And that's bad?

They spent untold time and money to develop this plan. They now want to make sure everyone knows about the plan before it is voted into law. This seems like a good thing.
I think the issue is what the PR firm has been hired to do by the planning commission. It has been reported by people who have seen Goff Public contract that they were hired to:

- “Reframe” the narrative about the plan and about future growth
- Create marketing materials that council members who support the plan can use to lobby other council members who oppose it.
- Keep council members who oppose the plan in the dark about the new draft plan as long as possible, and, and spring it on them just before the vote.
- Keep the public in the dark as long as possible by embargoing communications with reporters until just before the plan is released.

So basically they are hired with taxpayer dollars to lobby the council members to get the plan past. That is beyond a waste of our taxpayer dollars no matter what the issue is. Our government should not be hiring people to keep politicians in the dark.

Meanwhile the 10,000+ comments that were made on the plan has still not been made public, not executive summary circulated etc. Please planning commission, spend your resources communicating with the public vs trying to spin a narrative.

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby amiller92 » September 24th, 2018, 9:33 am

dingo wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 9:18 am
- Keep council members who oppose the plan in the dark about the new draft plan as long as possible, and, and spring it on them just before the vote.
- Keep the public in the dark as long as possible by embargoing communications with reporters until just before the plan is released.
What does the hiring of an outside firm have to do with these two?
Meanwhile the 10,000+ comments that were made on the plan has still not been made public
You need to find better sources of information, because this is not true: https://minneapolis2040.com/received-public-comments/
Please planning commission
You don't even have the relevant actors right.

dingo
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby dingo » September 24th, 2018, 9:37 am

amiller92 wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 9:33 am
dingo wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 9:18 am
- Keep council members who oppose the plan in the dark about the new draft plan as long as possible, and, and spring it on them just before the vote.
- Keep the public in the dark as long as possible by embargoing communications with reporters until just before the plan is released.
What does the hiring of an outside firm have to do with these two? Exactly!!!! Why someone hired to do this? Why is this even a plan?
Meanwhile the 10,000+ comments that were made on the plan has still not been made public
You need to find better sources of information, because this is not true: https://minneapolis2040.com/received-public-comments/

Sorry, I meant the summary and action plan based on the comments.... where is that? Link please

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby amiller92 » September 24th, 2018, 10:14 am

The revised plan is supposed to be coming out any time now. Complaining that it's not out before it's ready to be out is, well, not much of complaint.

And yes, we did note that you don't have an explanation of how hiring a PR firm keeps anyone in the dark.

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jtoemke
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby jtoemke » September 26th, 2018, 9:01 am

I honestly thought the revision would have dropped by now - so they could have a few days of staffed "replies" before the weekend. If it is later in the week, media has all weekend to really say what they want. Unless it is no longer going to be released this week?

Silophant
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Silophant » September 26th, 2018, 9:21 am

Andy Mannix says it might be next week:

seanrichardryan
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby seanrichardryan » September 26th, 2018, 3:54 pm

You guys, they're onto us...


Image
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Silophant
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Silophant » September 26th, 2018, 4:12 pm

Oh jeez

karlshea
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby karlshea » September 26th, 2018, 5:50 pm

Wait so you guys are rolling in grant money!?!


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