Arby’s Island

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Qhaberl
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Qhaberl » June 14th, 2018, 3:34 pm

More speculation: what about Uniqulo. It’s that Chinese store. Minneapolis could really use one of those.


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Nathan
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Nathan » June 14th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Uniqlo is a Japanese company, they have an average store size of around 16k square feet. Probably a better fit for Victoria's Secret.

Qhaberl
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Qhaberl » June 14th, 2018, 4:35 pm

Getting that store to go into Victoria’s Secret would be awesome!


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at40man
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby at40man » June 14th, 2018, 8:10 pm

hiawather wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 7:22 am
At both the city and state level we fund the arts, from the Legacy amendment to public art/sculptures, couldn't we do something similar with architecture? Perhaps truly interesting and solid architecture isn't possible in this day and age without a public/private partnership. I think it's worth investigating as we are talking about our built environment and this impacts entire neighborhoods- the impact isn't limited just to the people who live in or own these buildings.
It's not that it isn't possible. There are still good buildings being built. It's that good architecture just isn't valued by large segments of society. The culture of much of the past was that we should build nice buildings because they make a statement about what an area values and create a sense of community pride. These were philosophical arguments.

These days, utilitarian arguments win out. "Why spend money on ornamentation? Why spend money on beauty? That's just frivolous."

We can actually design and build structures that are aesthetically wonderful, functional, energy efficient and environmentally friendly -- but in the interests of the short term $$$ political planners, developers, many architects and others instead erect dully functional, wasteful, and disposable buildings that have only a couple of decades shelf life. We remember and learn from the greatest civilizations of the past because we can turn to their enduring architecture.

Multimodal
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Multimodal » June 14th, 2018, 9:41 pm

xandrex wrote:If this remains a single retail space but they're increasing it to 9,000 square feet, it seems kind of unlikely that it would be an Arby's or really any fast food restaurant unless it's going to be a really big one. The average Arby's is apparently 3,000 square feet (based on what I could find online). The average McDonald's is 4,000.

For comparison, a Walgreens average 14,500 square feet and Applebee's (or most bland, suburban chains) is 5,500. So I'm kind of curious what sort of businesses fits in between those two in size. The only things I could find online were generally clothing stores, but you don't typically see those be described with words like "uniquely pedestrian-oriented urban configuration."
A Whole Foods/Amazon showroom with free delivery or electric cargo bikes for rent.

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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Multimodal » June 14th, 2018, 9:51 pm

at40man wrote:These days, utilitarian arguments win out. "Why spend money on ornamentation? Why spend money on beauty? That's just frivolous."

We can actually design and build structures that are aesthetically wonderful, functional, energy efficient and environmentally friendly -- but in the interests of the short term $$$ political planners, developers, many architects and others instead erect dully functional, wasteful, and disposable buildings that have only a couple of decades shelf life. We remember and learn from the greatest civilizations of the past because we can turn to their enduring architecture.
A scary trend I’m seeing in urbanist circles is the wholesale tossing out of the place making aspect of new urbanism, and a push for affordable housing on every available parcel at the lowest possible cost, with no thought to making cities livable and enjoyable.

Yes, we desperately need affordable housing.

No, not every lot should be treated the same. This is why we have planning.

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » June 15th, 2018, 7:33 am

Would have been a good spot for Shinola to move into, maybe their need was more immediate....

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Nathan
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Nathan » June 15th, 2018, 8:12 am

Multimodal wrote:
June 14th, 2018, 9:51 pm

A scary trend I’m seeing in urbanist circles is the wholesale tossing out of the place making aspect of new urbanism, and a push for affordable housing on every available parcel at the lowest possible cost, with no thought to making cities livable and enjoyable.

Yes, we desperately need affordable housing.

No, not every lot should be treated the same. This is why we have planning.
So forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to keep coming back to affordable housing... which this project isn't... as the antithesis of place making, and I just don't really understand. A lot of the "affordable" housing being built in the last building boom tends to have better design features than a lot of the luxury and market rate housing being built. I'm just not sure where you're going with this argument. There was never any evidence that this privately owned plot of land was ever going to be anything monumental, the city has never laid this lot out as a priority for anything specific and in the actual reality of its location it's not really that great of a plot of land. Also, this lot doesn't "grandly" split Lake street in any way. I've been checking this out coming west from Lynn lake area every day now and there's no way that it does anything other than add to the canyon effect that's beginning on lake. You don't actually see that the lot is triangular until you get past Colfax. This isn't like the grid iron in New York, nothing on the roof is going to shine like a beacon down lake until you are right on it. I just don't get it.

I also have a problem with the need for ornamentation. Ornamentation does not equal good design. There are plenty of tacky cheesy buildings with false ornamentation all over the city and burbs. It doesn't need to be perpetuated. Minimalism is just as legitimate of and desirable form of design as anything else. It also can do its own fair share of place making. I'll take this over any recent attempt at classic/historic architecture any day, because it's always very false unless there are unlimited dollars involved, which here there are not.

I'll stand behind the argument that creating a cohesive multi block, retail rich, street friendly residential neighborhood will do more for uptown than any specific monument or monumental building would. Uptown's problem is that it has large vacant gaping holes, not that it's missing a marquee.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby mister.shoes » June 15th, 2018, 9:27 am

Hot take: the image that's been shared the most is the least flattering, and even then I kinda dig the smooth modern feel. The additional renderings provided in the packet show some more interesting angles and design features.

That said, some caveats: the renderings downplay the MagicPaks quite a bit, and I can't tell if the windows are flush or slightly recessed. If they intend to combine a smooth, minimal skin with recessed windows to provide depth, the effect could be really cool. If, OTOH, the windows are peel-and-stick and the MagicPaks are the only surface texture, it's going to suck.
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Seth » June 15th, 2018, 9:41 am

Multimodal wrote:
June 14th, 2018, 9:41 pm
xandrex wrote:If this remains a single retail space but they're increasing it to 9,000 square feet, it seems kind of unlikely that it would be an Arby's or really any fast food restaurant unless it's going to be a really big one. The average Arby's is apparently 3,000 square feet (based on what I could find online). The average McDonald's is 4,000.

For comparison, a Walgreens average 14,500 square feet and Applebee's (or most bland, suburban chains) is 5,500. So I'm kind of curious what sort of businesses fits in between those two in size. The only things I could find online were generally clothing stores, but you don't typically see those be described with words like "uniquely pedestrian-oriented urban configuration."
A Whole Foods/Amazon showroom with free delivery or electric cargo bikes for rent.
Amazon Go definitely seems plausible
Urban Home Depot/Lowes
Small format Ikea
Tesla Showroom

xandrex
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby xandrex » June 15th, 2018, 9:46 am

A few people have mentioned an Amazon Go store. Problems with Amazon aside, it would certainly be a cool project.

But it seems unlikely. First, because the next expansions are announced...and they're in San Francisco and Chicago. There doesn't seem to be a reason Amazon wouldn't have announced Minneapolis if they really wanted to expand here. Second, the Amazon Go store in Seattle is 1,800 square feet. No reason to think their Minneapolis store would be over 4x larger than the Seattle store.

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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby PhilmerPhil » June 15th, 2018, 10:45 am

What frustrates me most about this project is the lack of retail frontage. Especially at Lake and Emerson. One of the things that excited me most about the hotel project was that it would begin to make a stronger pedestrian oriented connection between LynLake and Uptown. The design of Lake and Emerson shown in renderings is pretty closed off, giving a signal to pedestrians that the commercial district has ended and this is where you turn around and walk back. I hope the final design and additional retail suggested does a better job of encouraging exploration and pulling pedestrians eastbound.

Qhaberl
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Qhaberl » June 15th, 2018, 10:59 am

I could be wrong, but wasn’t Emerson where the entrance to the parking is supposed to be?


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Multimodal
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Multimodal » June 15th, 2018, 9:23 pm

Nathan wrote:So forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to keep coming back to affordable housing... which this project isn't...

I also have a problem with the need for ornamentation. Ornamentation does not equal good design. There are plenty of tacky cheesy buildings with false ornamentation all over the city and burbs. It doesn't need to be perpetuated. Minimalism is just as legitimate of and desirable form of design as anything else. It also can do its own fair share of place making. I'll take this over any recent attempt at classic/historic architecture any day, because it's always very false unless there are unlimited dollars involved, which here there are not.

… Uptown's problem is that it has large vacant gaping holes, not that it's missing a marquee.
To your first point, well, this thread is a mishmash of things. The discussion started out before any idea of what would end up there was presented (so we started discussing this from a blank slate). Also, there’s been lots of talk about how affordable housing should be there, even if it’s not actually going to be there. So, yeah, it’s just a big jumble, where each post is responding to a number of different ideas.

As for ornamentation vs. minimalism: yes, more expensive ornamented buildings definitely look better than cheaper ones, but the same is true of minimalism: cheap minimalism looks cheap, whereas expensive minimalism looks sophisticated. I guess I’m more against cheap than minimalism per se. This goes back to what we as a society value (and are willing to pay for), and good place making.

As for Uptown’s problem being large vacant gaping holes, well, that could be said of everything in the Midwest or suburbia anywhere or even downtown Mpls before 10 years ago. Parking lots and dilapidated post-WWII 1-story buildings are a huge problem in urbanism. But I don’t think the solution is to just fill them in as soon as possible. Rather, I think we need a mix of serendipitous infill mixed with a certain amount of planning for what Uptown could be, along with a plan for what transportation through Uptown will look like in 20 years.

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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Multimodal » June 15th, 2018, 9:26 pm

xandrex wrote:A few people have mentioned an Amazon Go store. Problems with Amazon aside, it would certainly be a cool project.

But it seems unlikely. First, because the next expansions are announced...and they're in San Francisco and Chicago. There doesn't seem to be a reason Amazon wouldn't have announced Minneapolis if they really wanted to expand here. Second, the Amazon Go store in Seattle is 1,800 square feet. No reason to think their Minneapolis store would be over 4x larger than the Seattle store.
Much like my “monumental” idea, the Amazon/Whole Foods/eCargoBike was more a fantasy of what could/should be than what is likely, I suppose.

Probably more realistic is, as someone else mentioned, the urban Taco Bells.

nstudenski
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby nstudenski » June 17th, 2018, 2:21 pm

PhilmerPhil wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 10:45 am
What frustrates me most about this project is the lack of retail frontage. Especially at Lake and Emerson. One of the things that excited me most about the hotel project was that it would begin to make a stronger pedestrian oriented connection between LynLake and Uptown. The design of Lake and Emerson shown in renderings is pretty closed off, giving a signal to pedestrians that the commercial district has ended and this is where you turn around and walk back. I hope the final design and additional retail suggested does a better job of encouraging exploration and pulling pedestrians eastbound.
+10

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » June 18th, 2018, 6:19 am

Oh Yeah, much better views in the packet, I understand the building better, now. I didn't notice the wrap around aspect of the building on the Lake Street side from the first drawing...
Nathan wrote:
June 15th, 2018, 8:12 am
I also have a problem with the need for ornamentation. Ornamentation does not equal good design. There are plenty of tacky cheesy buildings with false ornamentation all over the city and burbs. It doesn't need to be perpetuated. Minimalism is just as legitimate of and desirable form of design as anything else. It also can do its own fair share of place making. I'll take this over any recent attempt at classic/historic architecture any day, because it's always very false unless there are unlimited dollars involved, which here there are not.
I can concede that Nathan has a point, a minimalist building can make a more "ornamented" building in the area seem more dramatic and provide a counterpoint.... but, "There's a space! "FILL IT!" doesn't take into account potential enjoyment of a grand design in the future...

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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby Jen » June 20th, 2018, 10:00 am

I really like the above mentioned idea of the Urban Home Depot. It blows me away how far you have to travel to get to a HD or Lowe’s from the neighborhood. I know it isn’t the most glamorous addition, and that it would draw vehicles because there are many items they sell that just aren’t transportable by bike or walking so parking would have to be included in the planning. Also, there is a hardware store at Hennepin and 28th, but they are pricier than HD and have a smaller selection of goods.

Home Depot is the last of the big box stores that are flourishing and it is a store that fits the needs of almost everyone in the neighborhood. An urban HD was put in on the Lakeview/Lincoln Park border in Chicago and it is always busy, even though it is in a dense neighborhood with a much lower percentage of home ownership.

Two floors of a Home Depot with apartments above in an attractive building would be a nice addition to the neighborhood.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 20th, 2018, 10:58 am

It could also be an urban format HyVee, which they piloted in Downtown Des Moines. They've yet to really make a move into the city, just the suburbs along the freeway loops. That could light some fire under Supervalu to do something better with the land the Cub is on.

Though it would be less than half the size of the DSM one with this footing, so that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

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Re: Arby’s Island

Postby amiller92 » June 20th, 2018, 11:54 am

Jen wrote:
June 20th, 2018, 10:00 am
I know it isn’t the most glamorous addition, and that it would draw vehicles because there are many items they sell that just aren’t transportable by bike or walking so parking would have to be included in the planning.
If it's something a large portion of customers need to drive, this doesn't seem like great location for it.

Like Matt, my first thought was an urban HyVee.


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