Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

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thatchio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby thatchio » March 21st, 2017, 9:58 pm

Re: Hennepin access to the Greenway.
The city and community should push very hard to get the Boneyard/Old Chicago parcel, when redeveloped, to finish the promenade. That would create access from the east side of Hennepin. From the west side, you already have the Mall, which connects you down at Humboldt.

Re: Hennepin Ave bike facilities
Once you get past the theoretical arguments of how you talk about bike facilities on Hennepin, I agree with Twincitizen, that this little stretch of Hennepin is probably not as useful as most other bike facilities....unless it later is extended further up north of Lake. My view is mostly that I don't think bike facilities will get that much use, perhaps more if it is fully protected, as the alternatives are more useful and feel a heck more safe. I've lived at 33rd/Dupont, 34th/Hennepin, and 35th/Girard and biked for a non-recreational purpose from all of those locations, so my perspective is largely based upon those experiences. I also used to bike to/from Uptown from Kenny so I often was taking Bryant or Lake Calhoun. For those going in the neighborhood, the one ways are too narrow to allow drivers to pass you in most places, which is nice. You can also bike down the middle to avoid dooring. It's also pretty low traffic, though there are some intersections to watch out for (32nd/Girard as an example). Hennepin from 34th-36th is a hill with the apex at 35th. If you're going to Lake Calhoun to go south from Uptown, it seems like most people go to the path by using 34th or 33rd over to the parkway and then down to the lake at 34th. Those going to places south of 36th seem to go over to Bryant, though some use the sidewalks on Kings Parkway or take Colfax to Lyndale Farmstead and meander through the park to get over to the Rose Gardens and then over to Lake Harriet. If you're west of Hennepin and south of 34th, you'd use a side street to get to your destination as the hill is a barrier. If you're east of Hennepin, I think your route really depends on the block you're going to.

That said, I agree with all the theory and the concept that bikers are going to destinations ON Hennepin so make it safe to bike on Hennepin. I don't think it's a high priority of a fight for me. I think the base concepts presented by the city are already 100x better than what we would have seen a decade ago. It seems like with some tweaking, some of these plans that preserve some parking could work for all users without having to remove all of the parking.

phop
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby phop » May 1st, 2017, 7:59 pm

The recommended layout is up:

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 198111.pdf

They went with 2A (bike lanes, east side parking) south of 31st and 1A (bike lanes, no on-street parking, raised mid-block crossing) north of 31st. The latter portion is going to feel completely transformed (assuming the city council doesn't pull a 3rd avenue).

ukitrain
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby ukitrain » May 1st, 2017, 8:07 pm

that would be amazing!

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Anondson
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby Anondson » May 1st, 2017, 8:27 pm

I absolutely LOVE how the block from 31st to Lake will turn out.

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby David Greene » May 1st, 2017, 8:53 pm

Wow. I love the concept but there's going to be huge pushback. What's the official answer to the forthcoming "parking!" comments?

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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby nBode » May 1st, 2017, 8:58 pm

Is it necessary to have the bus stops in the bike lane (it might be, I'm not sure)?

twincitizen
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby twincitizen » May 1st, 2017, 9:19 pm

Uhhh...yeah. The bus does have to pull over to the curb to load passengers.
(EDIT: Assuming the absence of "floating bus stops", which Grant shared an image below. They aren't being proposed here, so the bus does have to pull to the curb. Honestly though, it would be a pretty rare event that a stopped bus would actually be blocking a bike in this stretch)

Did anyone else notice there are no bus stops at 35th or 32nd in either direction? Awesome! I wonder how the city got Metro Transit to accept that?

Minor question: would the "restricted parking" on the 3100 block be metered? Because it definitely should be. By removing all parking from the 3000 block, not only is there the lost revenue from those meters, but also the demand for nearby on-street parking. As it stands today, the 3100 block is heavily parked pretty much 24/7. It would be pretty foolish and un-Shoupian to not charge for it. Heck, I bet people would pay to park on the 3200 block if it meant that parking would be available...still only a short 1 block walk to the south end of Calhoun Square.

grant1simons2
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby grant1simons2 » May 1st, 2017, 9:29 pm

I think what nBode was asking is if we can do something like this for the bus stops

Image

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby RailBaronYarr » May 2nd, 2017, 8:04 am

There are definitely parking concerns. The final meeting at Bryant Square Park last Thursday night where staff (Simon and Debra) presented this proposal had lots of Concerned Residents in attendance. Typical stuff, this is a winter city, nobody bikes, what about the businesses, what about the elderly, why can't people bike on Bryant, we need more parking not less, faux concern that encouraging biking on an already dangerous road like Hennepin was bad and would kill people ("it'll be on YOU"), etc. It was like a replay of the things I read on facebook pages for the Cleveland Ave bike lanes. What's odd is that ECCO (and many of the people in attendance) didn't take too much issue with the no-parking from Lake-31st part of it. It had more to do with removing just over 50% of the parking from 31st-36th and leaving it all on one side.

I'm sharing this wherever I can, but here is a street that's 65' wide. Hennepin is 66. https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/phot ... april-2017 https://goo.gl/maps/awHj7c3zM9S2

We can have it all (mostly!) if we want. A boulevard space that alternates between trees/ped lighting/benches/bus stop/bike rack space and space for parked cars (and deliveries, and Metro Mobility pickups) on both sides. A protected bikeway I'd actually let me kid ride on by himself (sorry, an unbuffered painted bike lane where buses pull in and cars use as a right turn lane doesn't cut it). We just need some slightly narrower thru lanes, and they'd be allowed without variance if the legislature just adopted the recommendation of that working group.

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby mattaudio » May 2nd, 2017, 8:31 am

Generally great, but a few nitpicks about intersections:

-36th St... Wouldn't it make more sense to do some sort of turn lane arrangement for southbound Hennepin onto 36th? Nearly all traffic turns left or right here (Lakewood) and people are really bad about right turning from the car lane across the bike lane.

-36th St... I'd rather see the buses just turn left or right here and stop immediately after on 36th St.

-35th/34th/33rd/32nd... Could we not do slight curb extensions for the side streets as well? Now is the time to do it, since the entire curb radius is being reconstructed. These curb radii will not be reconstructed for another two generations. They're doing it at 31st...

-Lake St... The southbound awkward right lane ending 50 feet after the intersection. It's dangerous and ridiculous. Make the left hand lane at Lake Street into a left turn lane onto eastbound Lake, and problem solved.

David Greene
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby David Greene » May 2nd, 2017, 8:45 am

I agree with all of what Matt said.

I assume there's no chance to get the city to look at RBY's example, but this is exactly the place that sort of thing should happen.

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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby amiller92 » May 2nd, 2017, 9:22 am

twincitizen wrote:
May 1st, 2017, 9:19 pm
Honestly though, it would be a pretty rare event that a stopped bus would actually be blocking a bike in this stretch)
Not saying it's an unacceptable design, but why would it be rare? I play the fun game of passing a stopped bus, which then passes me so we can do it a again in a few blocks all the time.

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby mattaudio » May 2nd, 2017, 9:34 am

I wonder if snow removal is the reason why we don't see bus bulb island stops. https://nacto.org/publication/transit-s ... land-stop/

MNdible
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby MNdible » May 2nd, 2017, 10:04 am

I'll repeat my earlier criticism that the Lake to 31st block absolutely needs to have have pull-off bays in each direction for loading/unloading of taxis, Ubers, drop-offs of elderly, picking up those with heavy packages, etc. If you hate it when bike lanes are blocked, you need to provide a reasonable alternative, especially in a block that will have this much loading/unloading traffic. There's plenty of width in that 17' wide sidewalk zone to create a couple of short loading bays and still have a very pleasant streetscape.

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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby RailBaronYarr » May 2nd, 2017, 11:50 am

I actually agree with MNdible there, which is also why I like the idea of a protected bikeway at sidewalk level with parking pull-outs in the boulevard space on the southern blocks. At the PAC meeting where early concepts were presented, we had a (totally random) guest with disabilities who raised the issue of whether Metro Mobility could pull out anywhere.

As to snow and bus bulbs, the city is testing out a fully raised bus bulb with bikeway behind it on Oak St near the U. They are specifically looking at how it functions for cyclists, how they'll manage snow, and how crowds use it.

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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby COLSLAW5 » July 1st, 2019, 8:39 am

I know the construction is pretty much finished now but how area between lake at 31st end up so barren? kind of surprised that they didn't add anything like storm water pavers to add some variety.
MNdible wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 10:04 am
I'll repeat my earlier criticism that the Lake to 31st block absolutely needs to have have pull-off bays in each direction for loading/unloading of taxis, Ubers, drop-offs of elderly, picking up those with heavy packages, etc. If you hate it when bike lanes are blocked, you need to provide a reasonable alternative, especially in a block that will have this much loading/unloading traffic. There's plenty of width in that 17' wide sidewalk zone to create a couple of short loading bays and still have a very pleasant streetscape.
Also shout out to MNdible for being spot on with ubereats/bitesquad drivers people are parked up here all the time now making it hard for any traffic bikes and cars to get past

mattaudio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby mattaudio » July 1st, 2019, 9:54 am

I'm supposedly #waroncars and even I think they should have included some drop-off/standing zones on the 3000 block of Hennepin.

LakeCharles
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby LakeCharles » July 1st, 2019, 10:30 am

COLSLAW5 wrote:
July 1st, 2019, 8:39 am
I know the construction is pretty much finished now but how area between lake at 31st end up so barren? kind of surprised that they didn't add anything like storm water pavers to add some variety.
MNdible wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 10:04 am
I'll repeat my earlier criticism that the Lake to 31st block absolutely needs to have have pull-off bays in each direction for loading/unloading of taxis, Ubers, drop-offs of elderly, picking up those with heavy packages, etc. If you hate it when bike lanes are blocked, you need to provide a reasonable alternative, especially in a block that will have this much loading/unloading traffic. There's plenty of width in that 17' wide sidewalk zone to create a couple of short loading bays and still have a very pleasant streetscape.
Also shout out to MNdible for being spot on with ubereats/bitesquad drivers people are parked up here all the time now making it hard for any traffic bikes and cars to get past
Agreed that something different would have been ideal, but given that it went this way, is there any way to increase enforcement of ubereats/bitesquad here? It'd be great if they started getting tickets for blocking traffic, and then the problem would solve itself. But I know MPD is loath to enforce traffic laws.

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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby TroyGBiv » July 1st, 2019, 5:50 pm

The bite squad cars blocked both sides of the street yesterday while I was eating lunch at amazing Thailand... i really hate that block now - so barren... no cars now actually makes it all feel sterile and abandoned...a few tooth pick trees... I’m so disappointed.

thatchio
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Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby thatchio » July 11th, 2019, 7:21 am

Can't believe that the 3000 block has so little landscaping. It's so much concrete. Hope some planter boxes get added.


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