Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
PhilmerPhil
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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby PhilmerPhil » July 8th, 2013, 7:01 pm

I get the concerns with a cycle track being possibly less safe due to visibility reduction. However, understand that the number one thing that can be done to increase bike safety, is to increase the number of riders, which is exactly why I support cycle tracks. Personally, many of us here can ride our bikes even on the most treacherous routes (Franklin Ave) and still be fine, but most people aren't like us. Most people do not feel safe riding on a busy street with nothing but paint separating them. By maintaining the status quo with bike lanes, e are missing out on a huge segment of the population that probably would ride a bike, but don't feel comfortable doing so. Minnehaha is just a start, but we really need a strong network of protected bikeways before we ever get to 10%-20%-50%? levels of ridership.

At this point, I, too, support the county's bike lane design over their lackluster cycle track. Another case of the county presenting us with a false choice. (See: Washington Ave.) To sum it up, the increased ridership outweighs the loss of visibility that comes with even a well designed cycle track

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby twincitizen » July 9th, 2013, 7:41 am

Ethan over at the MBC wrote up an analysis of the cycle track option and agrees with Phil on the County's perceived bias against the cycle track option: http://mplsbike.org/blog/posts/minnehah ... ests-bias/ He brings up some legitiamte points about the excessively wide bus stop buffer/loading zones and turning radii.

Additionally, I found this Hennepin County website which covers the broader set of issues/improvements in the Minnehaha/Hiawatha corridor: http://minnehaha-hiawatha.com/

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby MNdible » July 9th, 2013, 9:22 am

twincitizen wrote:He brings up some legitiamte points about the excessively wide bus stop buffer/loading zones...


Easy to say that they're too wide when you're blowing by them on a bike.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby blobs » July 9th, 2013, 10:50 am

I support whatever plan removes the most trees.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby Andrew_F » July 10th, 2013, 2:40 pm

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I don't understand where the idea that bike paths and cycle tracks are supposed to work for all cyclists comes from. You will never get roadies and serious commuters off of the streets unless you're offering something like easier/less intersections (ala Hiawatha trail or Greenway), so don't bother trying. Phil has it right that the target market for cycle tracks is primarily people who don't ride right now due to safety/comfort concerns. I also agree with Phil that perceived safety is more important to work on than actual safety-- perceived safety will bring numbers, and the numbers will bring the safety.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2013, 2:46 pm

I think that can absolutely be the point... it's more worthwhile to grow the number of bike trips than to make existing bike trips safer/easier, since growing the number of bike trips will in the end make all bike trips safer and easier.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby woofner » July 11th, 2013, 2:17 pm

We have a crosswalk visibility issue here that is much larger than cycle tracks. Too many drivers don't look to see if there's someone in or about to enter a crosswalk until they've already turned their car and are about to hit somebody. If anything, cycle tracks bring this issue more into the forefront and they should therefore be welcomed. But certainly a type of facility that is proven to build bicycle ridership shouldn't be passed up because drivers here are irresponsible and cops have no interest in enforcing traffic laws.
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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mattaudio » July 11th, 2013, 2:24 pm

One thing that would significantly help with that, benefiting cyclists and pedestrians, would be significant neckdowns at intersections. This would force a slower turn.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby Andrew_F » July 12th, 2013, 7:21 am

^Yep, bumpouts through the parking lanes at intersections, rather than just leaving the parking lanes to allow wider turns. Looks good, and slows traffic. The new ones on Penn look good.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mattaudio » July 12th, 2013, 7:49 am

Yet we only ever seem to see half bumpouts on Minneapolis and St. Paul streets. Why not neckdown the street to only the traffic lanes? 22' x 22' at the intersection table?

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby PhilmerPhil » July 12th, 2013, 8:45 am

My guess would be emergency vehicles.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mulad » July 12th, 2013, 8:51 am

I'm reminded why that doesn't work so well whenever my bus rides over a curb as it goes around a corner. There are Metro Transit buses, school buses, and trucks of various types to consider. Of course, we shouldn't design all neighborhood residential streets to accommodate all vehicle types all the time either.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 12th, 2013, 9:14 am

I wonder how emergency vehicles make do in cities across the world with much narrower lanes and intersections?

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mulad » July 12th, 2013, 9:37 am

Just using smaller vehicles with a shorter wheelbase, probably.

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 12th, 2013, 9:46 am

So if we target improving 1% of our intersections every year (pretty lofty goal), start changing out vehicle fleet (changeover every 10 years or so?), and in the meantime current emergency vehicle stock uses other routes (of which there would be plenty), is that an acceptable resolution to the issue?

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mattaudio » July 12th, 2013, 10:23 am

Cool, well in that case, we can avoid a bumpout in the southeast corner of the Minnehaha Ave/42nd St intersection since the 9 turns this corner. In all other corners we can have tight neckdowns.

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woofner
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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby woofner » July 12th, 2013, 1:39 pm

It seems like Canada's emergency and transit vehicles are of a similar spec to ours, but I've seen tons of full bump-outs there, even with 3m travel lanes. I suspect the emergency vehicle thing is just an excuse for people who don't want to lose parking space.
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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby PhilmerPhil » July 16th, 2013, 7:44 am

This recap of the county's meeting last week really stresses the need for all of us that want a street that works for everyone to show up to tomorrow's meeting: http://joe-urban.com/archive/a-few-ques ... ha-avenue/

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby mattaudio » July 17th, 2013, 10:53 am

The other meeting is today, 5 to 7 PM:
https://www.facebook.com/events/682180871809126/

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Re: Minnehaha Ave - Longfellow Area

Postby danie123182 » July 22nd, 2013, 10:57 pm

Well honestly to me the answer seems simple. Put a raised median in the middle of the road with a two way bike lane in it. Then have signal protected left turns turns so that nobody can turn left while the bikes have the green. I've actually seen this in NYC and it worked well.


Something like this. http://systemicfailure.files.wordpress. ... poster.jpg

I'm hoping you can see the point I'm trying to make. Something along the lines of that but of course adapted for MN as far as snow removal and such.


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