29th Street Reconstruction Project

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6205
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby twincitizen » August 15th, 2013, 3:04 pm

Rybak mentioned something in his budget proposal today that I had not previously heard of:

Chief among pedestrian improvements would be converting 29th Street South into a pedestrian walkway from Uptown to Midtown.

http://www.southwestjournal.com/news/ne ... ozen-years

EDIT: Actual text of speech copied below

29th Street

One street where I want to see more pedestrians is 29th Street, which sits right above the Midtown Greenway. You may know this as one of America’s worst streets, found in Uptown, one of America’s fastest-growing neighborhoods. The terrible condition of 29th means if we stick with the status quo we will spend many millions on a complete redo of a street.

There’s a better idea: Take most or all cars off 29th and make it a grand pedestrian way, like New York’s High Line, from the Calhoun-Isles channel and The Mall through the dense, car-dominated Uptown and Lyn-Lake neighborhoods and, eventually across the heart of the city.

That’s the future of 29th Street, and my budget funds the beginning of transforming it from potholed blight to popular amenity. The future 29th Street, just like the Midtown Greenway before it, will spark more growth and more density, and take more cars off our streets. And that’s good for every part of our city.

We may have to make some concessions, especially for a grocery delivery dock and parking, and I know there will be 37 different reasons why this is difficult or inconvenient. But it’s time we got bigger visions for that old-fashioned transportation strategy called walking. America’s #1 city for bikes should also be America’s #1 city for pedestrians.


Full budget address: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/mayor/news ... S1P-113009

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1112
Joined: November 15th, 2012, 10:01 am

Re: Uptown Development Map and General Discussion

Postby mamundsen » August 15th, 2013, 3:17 pm

Isn't most of 29th nonexistent? And how does this relate to the Greenway? Possibly prepping to lose some space down in the trench for a trolley?

User avatar
Nathan
IDS Center
Posts: 4003
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:42 am

Re: Uptown Development Map and General Discussion

Postby Nathan » August 15th, 2013, 4:13 pm

Or loosing some of 29th? Could the trench be widened for more ROW, or would the bridges cause a problem there?

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6205
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby twincitizen » August 15th, 2013, 9:10 pm

I'm going to be pretty happy if the pedestrianization of 29th Street means we can put full double-track LRT-spec rail in the Greenway from West Lake to Lyndale. 29th Street gets goofy east of Lyndale, sometimes showing up on the north side of the trench.

Assuming SWLRT is built through Kenilworth, the ability to run rapid service between as much of our densest area and West Lake Station would boost ridership among City-dwelling reverse commuters. It's no help for Downtown or University bound commuters like 3C would have been, but it will at least cover the reverse commuters.

Back to 29th Street, there's no way it can be continuous. And the portion east of Lyndale that's north of the trench can't readily be pedestrianized... Lots of property facing 29th that backs up to the Greenway--they have no other access.

It's either this or repaving 29th soon anyways. The street is in really bad shape. Cars turning to or from 29th Street onto Lyndale is already a problem and we're about to add roughly 1,000 new residents to the immediate area. This would be an excellent upgrade to the areas along the Greenway. I do wonder what this means for Uptown Rainbow though...

User avatar
Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4049
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Anondson » August 15th, 2013, 9:55 pm

I think this is a fine idea on every portion of 29th that makes sense. I don't see much sense doing this to any portion of 29th beyond Lyndale unless there is a plan for acquiring property over the years to extend this and link the staggered parts. Or offer developers of properties when the redevelop that they make efforts to extend the "pedestrian route" through their property in exchange for higher heights?

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2249
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby John » August 15th, 2013, 11:19 pm

Wonderful idea from Uptown to Lynn-Lake, but logistically impossible for many parts east of Lyndale (as stated above).

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5831
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby MNdible » August 16th, 2013, 7:47 am

Before you get too excited about eliminating cars from 29th, please take a moment with a map and understand what this will do to circulation and access to this increasingly dense area.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6205
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby twincitizen » August 16th, 2013, 7:58 am

I do, and hopefully it:

A. Puts pressure on 28th Street to become a 2-way (at least between Hennepin & Lyndale, maybe even to 35W)
B. Causes us to start "daylighting" intersections by enforcing the rules on parking within 30 feet, painting more curbs yellow, etc.

I copied the text of Rybak's speech into the original post, for anyone who hasn't heard/read it yet.

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2702
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 16th, 2013, 8:12 am

Just wanted to visualize for myself how many conflict points there are:

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=20 ... 18,0.01929

If the sections between Lyndale-Pillsbury and Portland-10th Ave could be figured out, you'd have a continuous pedestrian/local bikeway from E Calhoun Pkwy all the way to the cemetery when the Greenway curves north. If you were bundling this in to a transit project, like a Midtown corridor LRT/streetcar, would it be possible to employ one of 2 options at each point:
- Eminent domain on a select few (obviously not the most politically wise move but possible on some lower-value uses)
- Is it (engineering and cost) possible to build some land-bridges out over the southern 1/3 to half of the Greenway? This would be covering whatever transit would ride underneath it.

I guess my thinking is that if you free up some space down in the trench by moving pedestrians up to the surface, leaving only bike lane width, you may have just freed enough space for dedicated double tracks from Hiawatha to Hennepin. Bikes get a protected path in the 'pedestrian zone' for local access once they exit the Greenway.

aeisenberg
Union Depot
Posts: 314
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 7:45 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby aeisenberg » August 16th, 2013, 6:26 pm

We already have a pedestrian walkway here. It's called The Greenway. Want to make it friendlier to pedestrians? Add more exits. The area is already a hotbed for development. We don't need to double down on an area that's already healthy, especially with so many ROW issues. They should just pave 29th so it's not an embarrassment and invest precious public money somewhere where it's needed. Thumbs down.
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
612.568.5828 / aaron@agentaaron.com / 1350 Lagoon Ave #900
http://www.agentaaron.com

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2702
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 16th, 2013, 9:42 pm

^ I'm guessing this is a plan to accomplish a bunch of things: 1) add desperately needed 'park-like' space to an area that's rapidly growing, 2) keep a buffer between development and the trench for light access, 3) alleviate an already busy trench and focus it give it more focus on being a dedicated facility for uninterrupted longer distance travel (being grade separated and all) for bikes and transit, 4) allow for more local trips by bike and foot to be taken without having to go down. I would imagine adding more exits to the trail would constrain an already tight ROW as they move forward with the streetcar proposal. To me, the sporadic nature of 29th as it is does not serve local connectivity very well for vehicles, why not make it a great pedestrian connection?

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5831
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby MNdible » August 16th, 2013, 11:00 pm

29th is clearly not a thru street, but that doesn't mean it isn't serving a critical role in accommodating local circulation.

PhilmerPhil
Moderator
Posts: 1207
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 11:38 am
Location: SOUP: SOuth UPtown

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby PhilmerPhil » August 16th, 2013, 11:27 pm

Here's my general take on what happens when a street is closed to vehicular traffic:

1. People get worried about possible complications and disruptions.
2. Things might get bad for a few months after implementation.
3. People adjust their travel behaviors accordingly, everything ends up going smoothly and the world keeps turning.
4. We now have a new beloved space that people wouldn't in their wildest dreams consider reopening to vehicular traffic.

Chef
Landmark Center
Posts: 296
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 7:33 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Chef » August 17th, 2013, 9:47 am

Maybe I am overly skeptical, but how often do the visions of lame duck mayors become reality? If this is going to happen it is going to happen it is also going to need to be a priority of the next mayor and city council.

Tyler
Foshay Tower
Posts: 881
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:10 am

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Tyler » August 17th, 2013, 9:55 am

I'm not an uptown guy, but this seems pretty stupid to me. What would this space become? A place to watch people walking on the greenway? What am I missing here?
Towns!

uptown067
Metrodome
Posts: 89
Joined: June 9th, 2012, 9:37 am

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby uptown067 » August 17th, 2013, 10:03 am

It's unfortunate that this wasn't an idea when Mozaic was built. There's essentially no pedestrian access to the Mozaic Art Park from Hennepin (no side walk, just a bus turnaround). With the the entrance to the Mall area being redeveloped, it would have been awesome to have a continuous pedestrian experience from the lakes, down the mall, across hennepin and on down 29th.

User avatar
Nathan
IDS Center
Posts: 4003
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:42 am

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Nathan » August 17th, 2013, 10:13 am

Chef wrote:Maybe I am overly skeptical, but how often do the visions of lame duck mayors become reality? If this is going to happen it is going to happen it is also going to need to be a priority of the next mayor and city council.
With all due respect to Mr. Rybak, I highly doubt this was purely his idea. I'm sure there has been a bit of suggestion from some sort of staff... And the new mayor will probably have the same sort of bugs in their ears.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6205
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby twincitizen » August 17th, 2013, 10:31 am

uptown067 wrote:It's unfortunate that this wasn't an idea when Mozaic was built. There's essentially no pedestrian access to the Mozaic Art Park from Hennepin (no side walk, just a bus turnaround). With the the entrance to the Mall area being redeveloped, it would have been awesome to have a continuous pedestrian experience from the lakes, down the mall, across hennepin and on down 29th.
Agreed. Fremont to Hennepin won't be great because that's how buses access Uptown Transit Station. I'm not sure what improvements can even be made to that stretch because of the bus driveway there. Unless Mozaic 2 incorporates something amazing into its site plan, this ped connection basically dies at Fremont.

Naysayers, here's how I see things:
29th Street needs to be fully rebuilt anyways (not just resurfaced).
That's not going to be cheap.
Rebuilding the street for peds only could actually be cheaper and is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
This is not a duplication of the Greenway. The Greenway is a highway, 29th is the frontage road.

I actually walk down 29th quite a bit (it's part of my route to Rainbow, or Lunds if Rainbow is looking extra gross that day). It really seems like the primary use of 29th Street is currently "free" parking. It's not a good use of public dollars to rebuild a street that primarily serves as a parking lot. I get what MNdible is saying, but I think most of the "local circulation" happening on this street is people going to and from on-street parking spaces. 29th doesn't actually take you anywhere that wouldn't make more sense to use Lake or 28th (this argument becomes stronger if 28th were a two-way street)

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2702
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 18th, 2013, 10:06 am

twincitizen wrote:This is not a duplication of the Greenway. The Greenway is a highway, 29th is the frontage road.
Exactly.
twincitizen wrote:It really seems like the primary use of 29th Street is currently "free" parking. It's not a good use of public dollars to rebuild a street that primarily serves as a parking lot. I get what MNdible is saying, but I think most of the "local circulation" happening on this street is people going to and from on-street parking spaces. 29th doesn't actually take you anywhere that wouldn't make more sense to use Lake or 28th (this argument becomes stronger if 28th were a two-way street)
This is my experience as well, at least in the Uptown area. My friend who lived in Bue would park on 29th since his girlfriend took the garage space. If access to businesses is preserved by alleys and streets I don't think that 29th would be missed from a vehicle movement perspective.

User avatar
Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4049
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Anondson » August 18th, 2013, 12:04 pm

In a way it is too bad the recent developments around the greenway, especially everything fronting on Lake Street, weren't advised or guided to provide wider sidewalks anyway, or even mid-block pedestrian alleyway cut throughs. Urban residents seem to love their pedestrian alleys.


Return to “Minneapolis - South, Southwest, and Uptown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests