29th Street Reconstruction Project

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
twincitizen
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby twincitizen » June 24th, 2014, 9:01 am

Has anyone else noticed that the north side promenade completely lacks ADA accessability? At the end of each block of the promenade, you walk right into a parked car or utility pole guywire or some other obstruction with no ADA ramps whatsoever. Only Bryant has ADA because of the Greenway access point. That's been a slight disappointment to me. I understand the north promenade is all private property and has basically been developed and open to the public voluntarily, but the lack of ADA accomodations is a huge miss.

Wedgeguy
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Wedgeguy » June 24th, 2014, 9:21 am

This is partly do to the fact they don't want bike on the promenade. Also the promenade is a private/public walkway and is not at the end of a street. Do you see ADA cut into other private residences along any street. Also there are no marked cross walks like any other residential street in the middle of the block. The Promenade is on private land and not public land. The City did not build these, the city only required that the developers put them in to get approval to build their building. Safety is also a consideration as most drivers unfamiliar with the area would not think to look for people trying to cross in the middle of a block.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby David Greene » June 30th, 2014, 8:26 pm

MNdible wrote:
Nick wrote:Can't you smell the potential vibrancy??
Smells like... dumpster juice.
Yes. Yes it does.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby David Greene » June 30th, 2014, 8:28 pm

twincitizen wrote:Has anyone else noticed that the north side promenade completely lacks ADA accessability? At the end of each block of the promenade, you walk right into a parked car or utility pole guywire or some other obstruction with no ADA ramps whatsoever. Only Bryant has ADA because of the Greenway access point. That's been a slight disappointment to me. I understand the north promenade is all private property and has basically been developed and open to the public voluntarily, but the lack of ADA accomodations is a huge miss.
Yep. I curse that every time I take the stroller along the promenade.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby David Greene » June 30th, 2014, 8:29 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:This is partly do to the fact they don't want bike on the promenade. Also the promenade is a private/public walkway and is not at the end of a street. Do you see ADA cut into other private residences along any street. Also there are no marked cross walks like any other residential street in the middle of the block. The Promenade is on private land and not public land. The City did not build these, the city only required that the developers put them in to get approval to build their building. Safety is also a consideration as most drivers unfamiliar with the area would not think to look for people trying to cross in the middle of a block.
But of course we don't need a 29th street focused on and useful for pedestrians.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Wedgeguy » July 1st, 2014, 9:07 am

David Greene wrote:
Wedgeguy wrote:This is partly do to the fact they don't want bike on the promenade. Also the promenade is a private/public walkway and is not at the end of a street. Do you see ADA cut into other private residences along any street. Also there are no marked cross walks like any other residential street in the middle of the block. The Promenade is on private land and not public land. The City did not build these, the city only required that the developers put them in to get approval to build their building. Safety is also a consideration as most drivers unfamiliar with the area would not think to look for people trying to cross in the middle of a block.
But of course we don't need a 29th street focused on and useful for pedestrians.
Other than behind Rainbow, there are ADA sidewalks that line 29th that I walk on many times a week. I'll admit that the scenery as you go from Lyndale west goes down hill. But you have sidewalks with ADA curbs at each corner for the stroller. I thought we put this piss and moan party to bed last year. Why do pedestrians need the ROW of a street to walk, when a basic sidewalk will do the job. I feel a Piss and Moan 2.0 coming back to haunt us.

twincitizen
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby twincitizen » July 1st, 2014, 9:18 am

I think you just fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the project. Hopefully some concept drawings come out soon to give everyone a better understanding. Perhaps I should change the title of this thread.

My understanding is that the concept is to transform the 4-block stretch of 29th (Lyndale to Dupont/Rainbow) from a pothole-ridden street of little importance to a useful place for people. It is not just "another place to walk" as you continually deride it. The concept is a more attractive welcoming space that can not only be a place to walk, make "last block" bike connections from the Greenway, but also become host to events like an Uptown Farmers Market, and maybe someday the Uptown Art Fair (instead of being on Hennepin...barf). The intent is to become a usuable public space that possibly still allows local vehicle access needs. I think the concensus at the open house was that the current "free parking lot" program needs to end. Many at the open house suggested that local/driveway access should remain while eliminating the ability for cars to use 29th as a through street. One idea was that each block could be an alternating one way, or something similar to prevent through-traffic.

mattaudio
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby mattaudio » July 1st, 2014, 9:26 am

Even if it was "just another place to walk" what's wrong with that? Another place to walk should be every. single. street. alley. connection. in our city.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Wedgeguy » July 1st, 2014, 9:47 am

You see things that I don't, or want to see things that are not there. There are stop signs at ever corner of 29th, so that slows traffic down and in such, deters people from using it as a short cut. They can also put speed bumps in to make it less attractive as a short cut. As far as using the street for farmers markets and art fairs, I don't see enough ROW width to do such a think without it being very crowded and narrow. One must remember that you have peoples front doors that face the street so you just can't block them out each time you want to use it for what ever. You have no land on one side of the street and sidewalks that you can't block off on the other, so I don't see that as a viable idea in any shape or form.

I'll let you pie in the sky all you want, but when reality sets in, you will have few options that will actually be viable.

mattaudio
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby mattaudio » July 1st, 2014, 10:00 am

How did all those people deal with Lyndale being shut down for Open Streets? Think of the vehicles!

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Wedgeguy » July 1st, 2014, 10:21 am

They went thru neighborhood streets which I hear pissing and moaning about in here too. So that is not your alternative. Face it, they will not spend a bunch of money to close up a street only to have worse traffic headaches at intersections of Lake street. Unless you want to spend some of that magic money that grows on trees to pay for stop lights at Aldrich and Colfax you will have unsafe intersections as people try and make left hand turns onto Lake Street as they have no other way to get to the lights if you are south of 28th street.

In theory you may have some points, but I've seen a lot of theory that backfired over the years and cost a fortune to replace and make workable again.

mattaudio
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby mattaudio » July 1st, 2014, 10:29 am

I don't want what you want.

Wedgeguy
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Wedgeguy » July 1st, 2014, 10:43 am

It has nothing to do with what I want, You want to live in fantasy land, I'm more rooted in reality land where there are price tags for construction, and consequences to how things are done. As is the case of moving one traffic problem to create twice the traffic problems a few blocks away. As one who live and walks this area a few times a week. There is no traffic problem on 29th, only a old torn up road that needs to be replaced. I'll bet you money that they do not replace 29th with a stroad by any means.
There will be one lane of traffic each direction with parking on the south side just like it is now. If they want, they can put in more trees between the sidewalk and the street for you along 29th.

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buzz
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby buzz » July 14th, 2014, 5:10 pm

"A forgotten 29th Street getting new attention"
http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/266767001.html

Archiapolis
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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby Archiapolis » August 21st, 2014, 11:50 am

Wedgeguy wrote:It has nothing to do with what I want, You want to live in fantasy land, I'm more rooted in reality land where there are price tags for construction, and consequences to how things are done. As is the case of moving one traffic problem to create twice the traffic problems a few blocks away. As one who live and walks this area a few times a week. There is no traffic problem on 29th, only a old torn up road that needs to be replaced. I'll bet you money that they do not replace 29th with a stroad by any means.
There will be one lane of traffic each direction with parking on the south side just like it is now. If they want, they can put in more trees between the sidewalk and the street for you along 29th.
"Fantasy land" is converting a pockmarked and disused street into a pedestrian-centric walk?

My father has been in the concrete sawing and drilling industry my whole life - demoing a sh1tty street and repaving it in a way that *could* accommodate emergency vehicles but is pedestrian friendly isn't a prohibitively expensive idea given the creation of amenity space.

Do you honestly see 29th street as useful for car traffic? It is a garbage street that (anecdotally) very few people use and currently is not a "through" street that connects through to major streets. Since it is in such terrible shape and has very little connectivity it is avoided by cars (in my observation) thus turning it into a pedestrian only "street" shouldn't be that big of a deal to car traffic. There is minimal sacrifice to be made by cars in favor of pedestrians which seems on balance to make this is a simple calculus.

If we can't diminish car traffic on a crappy, disused, non-connected street in a very dense area where CAN we?

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Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby Wedgeguy » August 21st, 2014, 1:37 pm

^^^^^^

You might want to keep reading further posts, as that street also services truck that are going to Cub foods for delivery. All was explain in a different post as to way this street has value for vehicle traffic. As it has been pointed out several times, there already are already 3 pedestrian walkway one or with in 40 yards for 29th. A side walk that is next to 29th, A greenway that is both a pedestrian and bike way. And right north of the green way a promenade that will stretch from Aldrich to Giard.

Cub is not going anywhere any time soon so you can take that block out right away. As long as they are there they will need a street where semi's can approach from due to the quick change of grade at Dupont and 29th which make turns there a bit unsafe if a load were to shift mid turn. IF you live in my neighborhood, you would know that there is plenty of traffic on that street. Your welcome to your opinion, Mine is set in the reality that I see many times a week when I walk thru the area.

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Re: The Pedestrianization of 29th Street

Postby David Greene » August 21st, 2014, 1:37 pm

Archiapolis wrote:Since it is in such terrible shape and has very little connectivity it is avoided by cars (in my observation) thus turning it into a pedestrian only "street" shouldn't be that big of a deal to car traffic. There is minimal sacrifice to be made by cars in favor of pedestrians which seems on balance to make this is a simple calculus.
To be fair, there's a noticeable uptick in traffic near Bryant. It does serve a circulatory function there as people hunt for parking. Of course that's an entire issue unto itself. I think maintaining some level of access for cars is probably a good idea but it shouldn't have parking and it shouldn't look anything like any other street in the area.

The alternative is to have people head to 28th and that might make two-way conversion there more difficult. Or not, if two-way allows better circulation. I don't know to be honest.

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Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby TheUrbanGopher » September 10th, 2014, 3:24 pm

Meant to post this morning, but better late than never.

There is an open house tonight at the Walker Library in Uptown that will go over plans and ideas for 29th Street. I'm planning on going if I can get off work a tad early.

Where: Walker Library
When: 6:00pm - 7:00pm
Why: Because, urban stuff.

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Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby VAStationDude » September 11th, 2014, 5:18 pm

Woonerf May be headed to W. 29th Street.

http://m.startribune.com/local/blogs/27 ... itial=true

It looks like the pie in the sky dreamers might win out. ;-)

grant1simons2
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Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby grant1simons2 » September 11th, 2014, 5:24 pm

It was a very much liked idea wt the meeting last night. The only problem that stands in the way is cost, they need about 1.25 million more than what they have which is $750k


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