Nicollet-Lake - greater Kmart area

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
Lancestar2

Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby Lancestar2 » October 9th, 2014, 9:40 pm

Kmart has shrunk so much over the years and they have been hacking away at any and all underperforming stores it is unlikely that they had any plans to work on this... Kmart had become Big Kmart in the late 1990's through about 2002. The investments then were considered a Hail Mary pass... they have closed many of those "newer" stores all across the country - so they are really more concerned about supporting the stores with the best sales. The negotiating that is going on is about how the Kmart on Lake has had no investment in decades but it is generating decent sales - what they want is to leverage their current position to get the city to "invest" in updating and including their store in the master plans. They don't have a great negotiating position as they don't own the property... but they do have a 50 year lease with the property owners which has some negotiating advantages... Kmart tried to throw a twist into this project last year when they claimed that when the city started calling that block "blighted" they were making a statement about the Kmart brand and were causing them harm... But from a legal point of view a judge would throw that out very quickly. So they seem to have dropped that strategy, at least for now.
Thanks for sharing!

In 2013 Kmart operated 1,221 stores with today's number at 989 almost 20% of all stores closed in 2 years alone. It sure would be a shame if Kmart is apart of the redevelopment and gets a design specific building only to close up shop within a year or two after. Somehow I think all roads leave to Kmart doing exactly that and leaving one final trolling act before making their grand exit out of the Twin Cities. :lol: Imagine Kmart making the internet blog lists of Minneapolis's biggest blunders twice! hip hop granny would surly be getting the last laugh.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby TroyGBiv » October 9th, 2014, 10:51 pm

Putting that decline in perspective - when I worked with them they had around 3,300 stores in 2000... They have imploded.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby Wedgeguy » October 10th, 2014, 9:57 am

When Walmart moved into the cities they were in they basically just quit existing. Walmart stores were newer and for the most part better shopping experience. I'm not sure that shopping experience is the same these days, as I feel Walmart has gone downhill with all of their cost cutting, They now lack any personal appeal like when they had the greeters.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby ECtransplant » October 10th, 2014, 12:43 pm

I think that's the first time I've heard anything positive about the Walmart "shopping experience," aside from comedic value.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby Wedgeguy » October 10th, 2014, 12:56 pm

Try navigating a KMart and you will understand. At least Walmart's are better laid out. New sores tend to feel more welcoming than a store that has not been updated in 30 years. I'm far from a Walmart fan, But in comparison to KMart, that is my perception.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby lordmoke » December 16th, 2014, 10:03 am


MNdible
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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby MNdible » January 13th, 2015, 11:28 am

Walgreens beats the city to the punch.

I suppose this is sort of a good news/bad news sort of thing. On one hand, might have been nice to be able to master plan the whole redevelopment. On the other, this is land the city won't have to buy and won't have to subsidize.

How do we feel about opening up 29th Street through here?

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 11:43 am

You mean now, with the Walgreens mixed-use development (Kmart staying as-is), or after Kmart is removed? I assume the latter (because of truck docks, etc.) and to answer...I don't know.

At the very least, a nice wide strip of ROW should be preserved along the Greenway - for peds, for transit access, maybe for vehicular access to parking...

One way of thinking about the coordination of development between the two parcels is that the property line is basically where a hypothetical alley would go between Nicollet & Blaisdell. Not saying there should be a N-S alley here, but just in terms of breaking up building facades along Lake Street and whatnot, it's really not a bad thing to have a completely different building start at that property line. Presumably the Walgreens development would be able to leave a completely blank wall there, at least on floors 1-2 (with possible residential balconies set back from that property line.)

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby MNdible » January 13th, 2015, 11:45 am

Yes, I mean once the whole site is redeveloped, but it that were the plan, you'd need to ensure the Walgreens site was designed to accommodate a new 29th Street.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 11:51 am

It's such a deep parcel, I'd almost imagine that Walgreens/Semper would willingly sell "the back 40" (or whatever) to the City. It's so incredibly huge I think they'll struggle to fill it (with things that are not surface parking).

They could basically build BLUE*, with a large Walgreens on the ground level and still have plenty of space left over for a full-width 29th. Just this Supervalu parcel alone could be a two-phase development.

*242 units on essentially the same piece of land, minus 29th Street ROW

EDIT: Blue is actually just 129' wide, while the Supervalu parcel is 205' wide. Even after accounting for things like wider setbacks, plazas, transit stations, etc., there's still more than ample room to get Walgreens + 250 units here.

EDIT2: This would be a great location to test just how low on parking a financier/developer will go. I suspect the City would allow going below existing minimums if it were proposed (history suggests it likely won't be).

EDIT3: I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but if Walgreens leave their current store a block away from here, we're going to have a vacant Walgreens, Wendy's and Champions in a very concentrated area. I think the total deficiency of development between Lyndale and Nicollet really hurts chances of market-rate development at the Kmart superblock (in the absence of streetcars and a reopened Nicollet)

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mattaudio
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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 12:17 pm

The city could possibly land "the back 40" of this for Greenway/29th ROW, while vacating the Cecil Newman Lane ROW once Nicollet is reopened.

Random idea for one or both of these parcels... what if the city and Metro Transit worked to create a sub-basement that included a level of district parking and then one or more levels of bus storage/maintenance to replace the Nicollet Garage? And then the Nicollet Garage block could be redeveloped in the future? #justanidea

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby acs » January 13th, 2015, 12:25 pm

One downside of the city not being able to master plan the site is now the transit stations will probably be much less coordinated. Remember, there's a Nicollet streetcar station, a greenway streetcar station, and the Orange line station all to be located somewhere within this small area. It would be much easier for the city to coordinate placement and way finding if they owned the whole thing.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 12:29 pm

But won't the transit stations be located on public ROW? And the heart of this will be Lake/Nicollet, and Greenway/Nicollet? Both of which can have transit ROW taken by eminent domain, if necessary, as part of the Nicollet reconnection? This specific Walgreens site doesn't seem to have much significance, since it's only the western 2/3 of the block between Blaisdell and FutureNicollet. If anything, it would improve the chance of good urbanism since it creates a small sliver fronting and west of FutureNicollet.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby acs » January 13th, 2015, 12:53 pm

True, the stations themselves would be, but similar to the nicollet hotel block this will need to consider accommodating any substations. In addition, I seem to recall a design for raising the streetcar out of the greenway at nicollet and potentially merging stops with the nicollet streetcar in this area. That might require easements through the north side of this super block. I feel it's crucial to get these three (potentially 5) stops as close together and consolidated as possible. I don't think this western chunk will have much impact on that and it sounds like they are working to build something with good urban form, but the city cannot be left out on the crucial middle and eastern-most sections of this block.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 1:05 pm

The two blocks bounded by FutureNicollet, 29th, Stevens, and Lake will be the most transit-connected in the metro, will they not?

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby acs » January 13th, 2015, 1:15 pm

Yeah probably, but it just seems silly to have so many stops within this small area when the city has the opportunity to develop a comprehensive plan. Worst case scenario the stops are: Greenway/Nicollet-Midtown streetcar, Greenway/I-35W-Midtown streetcar, Nicollet/Greenway-Nicollet streetcar, Nicollet/Lake-Nicollet Streetcar, Lake/Nicollet-Lake st. aBRT, Lake/I-35W-Lake st. aBRT, 35W/Lake-Orange line BRT. I'm not saying they absolutely need to build another target field station here, but the opportunity is there and the benefits of even a little consolidation using this property is huge.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby mattaudio » January 13th, 2015, 1:21 pm

Ideally would be platforms long enough to share stations, at least for Orange Line and Greenway LRT. So it will be a rotated L shape with the corner at Orange/Greenway, with accesses at Nicollet/Greenway and Stevens/Lake.

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 1:59 pm

Planned stops for Orange Line and Nicollet Streetcar are at Lake Street, not at 29th/Greenway. As long as the pedestrian experience for that ~600 ft walk from Lake to Greenway (or vice versa) are amazing and pleasant, I don't think it's crucial to have much more coordination than that. Though I do hope that plans for the Greenway rail include a single (very) long platform to serve both Nicollet & 35W, rather than two actual stops. We honestly have no idea right now if rail in the Greenway will *ever* happen, and it's certainly 15 years away at the least. I don't know that much can or should be done at this point other than preservation of ROW along the trench

uptowncarag

Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby uptowncarag » January 13th, 2015, 6:48 pm

Do we really need another Walgreens?

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Re: Lake & Nicollet Redevelopment (Kmart site)

Postby twincitizen » January 13th, 2015, 7:22 pm

Is it really not obvious that it would replace the one at Lake & Pillsbury, one block away?


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