Lime - (2904 Lyndale Avenue South)

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Wedgeguy
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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 6th, 2012, 11:06 am

twincitizen wrote:Great news! I walked by just 2 nights ago on my way to Rainbow and was disappointed that nothing had changed. This building is really going to change the character of LynLake.

In the Buzza thread, we were having a little conversation about 29th Street. Perhaps this project could be a catalyst to get this block re-paved.
We can only hope that it gets some improvments.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » November 6th, 2012, 1:09 pm

Re: 29th Street, I felt like at one point they were waiting for the Rainbow redevelopment to go forward so they could reclaim the public right of way that's being used as a loading dock.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby PhilmerPhil » November 6th, 2012, 1:16 pm

MNdible wrote:the Rainbow redevelopment
Really wish this happened...

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby mplser » November 6th, 2012, 4:06 pm

yeah, the rainbow thing could have really changed that area

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » November 6th, 2012, 4:22 pm

mplser wrote:yeah, the rainbow thing could have really changed that area
I'm still hopeful it might happen -- with all of the new apartments being built so close, there should be more demand than ever. Of course, those paying $1300 for a swank studio apartment may not be Rainbow's core demographic.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 6th, 2012, 6:48 pm

MNdible wrote:
mplser wrote:yeah, the rainbow thing could have really changed that area
I'm still hopeful it might happen -- with all of the new apartments being built so close, there should be more demand than ever. Of course, those paying $1300 for a swank studio apartment may not be Rainbow's core demographic.
I totally agree, in fact, I think that the longer it takes for Rainbow to redevelop the more substantial the Rainbow redevelopment may be. And remember, the Mosaic (phase I and II) is 10 floors already and has set the prescedent for how high Uptown can/will build, and Rainbow has a very similar layout along the Midtown Greenway.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby lordmoke » November 7th, 2012, 10:29 am

It's behind the paywall, but F&C has this (which just confirms what we know.)
http://finance-commerce.com/2012/11/jus ... partments/

Really great to see every project I'm excited about get off the ground, unlike last time we had a building boom. Hopefully all these developments will make the Greenway (at least this stretch) a much safer place to be at night.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 7th, 2012, 12:22 pm

What's it like riding down there nowadays, and what will it be like riding down the Greenway next summer? Is it "canyon-esque"?

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 7th, 2012, 1:26 pm

No more of a canyon than it is right now. The buildings are set back from the greenway with the walkiable promanade. From where the actual bile and walking lanes are you have at least 20 yards of sloping greenspace to which I hope will be landscaped with trees and bushes and some gardens. This will not be New York city where there will be no sunlight. There will be plenty of open space and sunlight available. for years to come.

Starting at Lyndale and going west. The north side of the green way has a one story above street building with the basement that is open to the Greenway and is actually landscaped for the users of this building. On the south side we have 2900 which I believe at 29th st will be 4 stories and stepped up to 5-7 stories as the building get further from the greenway towards Lake.

Aldrich to Bryant on the south we will see the Blue which has been up and going now from 2 - 3 years it is 4 to5 stories depending on the setbacks that were built to keep sunlight on the greenway. This development only takes up half the block facing the greenway, the other half is a parking lot and loading are for the busness next door. On the North we will have Track 29 whose south building that faces the Greenway will be 6 stories. But will be set back from most of the greenway by the enterance/exit ramp to the green way, plus the pedestrian promenade that will connect Aldrich to Bryant Ave. This promenade will extend from Alrich to Girard at the top north of the Greenway. If and when they redevelope the Old Chicago site, I believe that would extend to Hennepin Ave.

Bryant to Colfax, We have four storiy condo buildings on the north with 3 story apartment building to the sound with half of that block facing 29th being those apartments parking for the near future.

Colfax to Dupont you have nothing facing 29th as that is below grade parking for Buzza. I do see future possibliites of future housing fronting 29th. But I do see a maximum height of 3-4 stories and setback 6 to 10 feet from the street with walk ups on the ground level. The Elan to the north side will be 6 stories, but with two separate buildings faceing the greenway so there will be no solid wall like the Track 29 building.

Dupont to Emerson on the north will be like the Elan to it's east in being 2 separate building facing the greenway but will have a greater area that cascades down to the greenway itself. To the south will be Rainbow and whatever potential redevelopment may come about. Right now a one story store.

Emersom to Fremont has a machime shop on the south side that could be redeveloped in the future, as well as the Planned Parenthood that is on the same block. There is more industrial redevelopment on the north side of the Greenway across from Flux. Not sure how much of that land is owned by Greystone that is doing Elan.

West of Fremont you have Flux on the north and Mosaic II on the south side. Again any developer along this will know up front what they can and can not get by with. If they really want to build here they will have to conform to the current land use that is pretty much set in stone.
Last edited by Wedgeguy on November 7th, 2012, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Archiapolis » November 7th, 2012, 1:32 pm

@lordmoke:
I'm glad that you believe that these projects and the "eyes on the Greenway" will make the Greenway a SAFER place.

The Midtown Greenway Coalition fights development along the south side of the Greenway due to the potential shading and ice that could occur as a result. The Midtown Greenway Coalition believes the shade/ice to be a more important issue than "eyes on the Greenway." BKV Group presented exhibits that showed pretty clearly that the bank of the trench itself and the bridges present significant shading (with no building at all) and that the sun only works to melt ice if the pavement is exposed and acts as a thermal mass. Solar ice melt is negligible or nonexistent if the pavement is not bare and insignificant in the coldest conditions. It is clear that snow removal is the biggest factor in Greenway safety in the winter. I also think that the MGC should focus on working WITH developers and the city to create an in-pavement ice melt system that would work REGARDLESS of the sun/temperature. Set up a fund for each development to contribute something, with a match of some kind by the city, and donations from private sources (meaning the MGC would have to fund raise a bit too) to pay for installation and system maintenance. This system could be solar powered by panels on the south side of the trench (where the sun actually has exposure!) The Greenway is an important asset - that fact is undeniable. However, density is important and urban development and density should not be limited by one group who have no monetary stake in the Greenway, no ownership of that space,and appear to have no interest in compromise.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 7th, 2012, 2:39 pm

Sounds like the buildings almost never block sunlight, so what's all the hub-bub about building heights? Also, if keeping the Greenway snow/ice free is important, what about adding in heaters under the pathways to keep snow/ice from ever forming on it in the 1st place? I realize this wouldn't be cheap, but if the Greenway ever becomes a freeway for bikes in the future, keeping it clear would probably be optimal.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » November 7th, 2012, 2:44 pm

I think you all are over-reacting. The Greenway isn't trying to ban buildings around it, they're just asking that buildings on the south bank be somewhat respectful and use some setbacks and avoid block-faces that are too wide in the E-W direction. To me, these fairly modest requests will make for a much more interesting built form.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Archiapolis » November 8th, 2012, 1:05 pm

@min-chi-cbus:
What I proposed in my earlier post is EXACTLY what you are talking about - a snow melt system. This is the best of both worlds: keeps the Greenway path clear of dangerous snow and ice REGARDLESS of shadowing while still allowing development that increases the "eyes on the Greenway" thus increasing the safety of that space. Developers, the city and the Greenway (through fundraising) could all fund such a system, would all have a stake and would all have a vested interest in its operation. Which brings me to my next point...

@MNdible:
The 29th and Lyndale development STARTED with a 15' setback from the property line,(which is inside the sidewalk line) - then stepped back the height an additional 5' at the 6th floor for a 20' setback. BKV then demonstrated through a shadow study that the bank itself and the bridges had as much or more of an impact as the building. None of the above mattered to the MGC who appealed the Planning Commission's approval of the project as designed earlier or Gary Schiff who heads up the Zoning and Planning committee who OVERTURNED the Planning Commission's approval. A 15' setback for floors 1-5 and a 20' setback at 6 and a six story building is very "respectful" in my opinion. I love biking, I love the events that the Midtown Greenway Coalition holds, and I think the Greenway is an important amenity for the city. However, a group with no monetary stake, no understanding of urban planning or the economics of development shouldn't be driving the urban form of Minneapolis. If only we had a "commission" of "planners" who were professionally trained to understand urbanism, density, transit, and architecture...

My $.02.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Wedgeguy » November 8th, 2012, 1:50 pm

After looking at the Nicollet Mall and how well the heating system worked or failed to work and last, I can't see spending that kind of money on an amenity for neighborhoods. The last few years the city or who ever has done an excellent job at clearing the snow off the greenway. With the dark seal coat that they have applied the sun's warmth will do and excellent job of helping keep the Greenway a safe place to travel. There are only 2 real locations that I can agree to any heating possiblilies and they are between Fremont and the west side of the Hennepin Ave bridge over the greenway. The wall that supports the road for the bus transit center and Mosaic and it's second Phase do cause areas where the sun seldom shines long enough to warm the thermal mass of the asphalt. The other being behind the Calhoun Beach Clubs tower where you get no sun. So if you are going to put heating elements under this section you can go further east and include the area behind where they want to put up a residential tower,(Weisman Site). I could say that they need to cut down all the trees on the south side of the green way because the branches help to create shadows that make it hard for the snow to melt. I'm making a silly but true statement, but I'm using the same logic as the greenway supporters. Get rid of what ever make a shadow, it is all very silly!!

I walk that section of greenway all winter long, so I'm talking from experience. I walk from Bryant out to the Barnes and Noble out in Calhoun Village. I know what and where things fail to melt. I know the excellent job that they do to keep the greenway clear of snow packs and ice.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » November 8th, 2012, 2:03 pm

Let me preface the following by saying that the MGC often drives me crazy -- I'm no shill for them.

Obviously the MGC has their own axe to grind, just as the Heritage Preservation Commission or any other "single purpose" board does. We shouldn't be surprised when the HPC votes to protect an old building and is then over-ruled, just as we shouldn't be surprised that the MGC would stake out an aggressive position on the Greenway that is either listened to or ignored, or somewhere in between.

Do you think that BKV would have made the accommodations they did to the Greenway in the absence of the MGC's advocacy? Does it surprise you that BKV would present images that indicate that their proposal is a good one?

The Greenway is a unique feature in Minneapolis -- I don't think that it's too much to ask that buildings built adjacent to it have a different form than a building built up against, say, Lake Street.
Archiapolis wrote:However, a group with no monetary stake, no understanding of urban planning or the economics of development shouldn't be driving the urban form of Minneapolis.
I didn't realize that only those with monetary stakes get to have a voice in this process. I guess I've been rather naive about democracy.

Again, I'd argue that the MGC has proven themselves to be quite savvy about urban planning, but they're not coming at it from the point of view of maximizing the developer's profit. They have their own agenda, and while I don't always agree with their stances, I'm glad that they're out their advocating.
Archiapolis wrote: If only we had a "commission" of "planners" who were professionally trained to understand urbanism, density, transit, and architecture...
There's been a lot of concern from a lot of sources that the Planning Commission is now made up of people who are too closely aligned with the development industry. There have been more and more instance lately of marginal conflict of interests -- not enough to be a true conflict, but enough that it raises some eyebrows.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby twincitizen » November 9th, 2012, 9:28 am

171 units (not sure if that is the same as before)

Rents $1300-$2500

Will begin leasing late 2013, open early 2014.

“We would have liked to have started three months ago, it was just a very complicated and difficult transaction to put together.”

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby woofner » November 9th, 2012, 11:11 am

MNdible wrote:There's been a lot of concern from a lot of sources that the Planning Commission is now made up of people who are too closely aligned with the development industry. There have been more and more instance lately of marginal conflict of interests -- not enough to be a true conflict, but enough that it raises some eyebrows.
Like the fact that the chair works for the architecture firm that designed 4 out of 5 projects that come in front of them.
twincitizen wrote:171 units (not sure if that is the same as before)
Seems to have been 176 units before:

http://www.ouruptown.com/2011/12/new-pl ... 0-lyndale/
"Who rescued whom!"

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » November 9th, 2012, 12:22 pm

redisciple wrote:
MNdible wrote:There's been a lot of concern from a lot of sources that the Planning Commission is now made up of people who are too closely aligned with the development industry. There have been more and more instance lately of marginal conflict of interests -- not enough to be a true conflict, but enough that it raises some eyebrows.
Like the fact that the chair works for the architecture firm that designed 4 out of 5 projects that come in front of them.
For example...

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby mullen » November 9th, 2012, 2:48 pm

it begins and ends in minneapolis with the city council. the planning commission just makes recommendations to the council. nothing they do is binding. if you don't like specific building designs complain to your councilmember. It's really a thankless job if you ask me. They meet a lot and it's a big time commitment for these people.

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Re: Greco Lyn-Lake Building - (2900 Lyndale Avenue South)

Postby Chef » November 9th, 2012, 11:58 pm

I walked past this last night and was pleased to see two large holes in the ground. Nice to see this thing underway, Lynlake is becoming pretty urban.


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