16Twenty - 1620 W Lake St

[John]

What is the current density on the site between the three houses?

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&l ... CCUQxB0wAA

[seanrichardryan]

Also, will the architecture firm have some sort of ownership stake? It seems odd for a six-unit homeowners' association to manage two floors of commercial/ restaurant leasing.

John, I meant # of units.

[thatchio]

I would assume there are two condo associations and a REOA to manage how they share common spaces. So there would likely be one entity owning all the commercial space and six residential condo owners.

[min-chi-cbus]

Well, at least no one can complain its too tall or contributes to terrible traffic congestion! It still looks good, although I thought the 4 story version had a little more visual impact and gave a better feeling of density along Lake Street.

Actually, I could completely see somebody trying to make that argument. You know the ironic thing is that most neighbors would probably be very happy to see something like a drive-thru Starbucks pop up at a corner near them, yet a retail establishment like that would generate FAR more traffic than just about any residential project would generate. You could build a 500 unit, 50 story skyscraper condo building and it would still have fewer comings and goings than a busy drive-thru retail establishment, or other popular retail destination.

I HATE the "traffic" argument, it's naive!

[woofner]

What is the current density on the site between the three houses?

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&l ... CCUQxB0wAA

http://apps.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/AddressPortalApp/

[seanrichardryan]

What is the current density on the site between the three houses?

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&l ... CCUQxB0wAA

http://apps.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/AddressPortalApp/

Yeah yeah yeah.

To answer my own question-

R1A SINGLE FAM DWELLING- 1 4br house
2915 JAMES AVE

M2D DUPLEX- 2 1br Units, One commercial
1618 LAKE ST

COA OFFICES & APTS.- 2 Units 1br, 2br, one commercial
1620 LAKE ST

[John]

Good to be able to answer your own questions when no one else is capable of helping! lol .The density of the new project sounds similar to what currently exists between the sum of the three houses.

[Wedgeguy]

So this went from a 4 story to a 3 story?

[thatchio]

more than half of the sf is commercial. so the net density should be increased.

[twincitizen]

6 - 2BR rental apartments says F&C. The for-sale condo concept is dead. Obviously the four $1MM+ condo idea didn't work out, but I wonder why they didn't even attempt to market the more modestly priced 2BR units for sale. There is next to nothing for sale on MLS right now in the Uptown area. Two 2BR units in Midtown Lofts, listed at 330k and 400k. Those prices just have to support new condo construction in Uptown, at least on a smaller scale (i.e. not 200 unit buildings like Elan, Lime, etc.), right?

[seanrichardryan]

I've been led to believe that small apartment projects weren't financially feasible.

[twincitizen]

This seems like a pretty unique circumstance driven by the office needs/wants of Reuter Walton and Preston-whatever architecture firm.

[John]

6 - 2BR rental apartments says F&C. The for-sale condo concept is dead. Obviously the four $1MM+ condo idea didn't work out, but I wonder why they didn't even attempt to market the more modestly priced 2BR units for sale. There is next to nothing for sale on MLS right now in the Uptown area. Two 2BR units in Midtown Lofts, listed at 330k and 400k. Those prices just have to support new condo construction in Uptown, at least on a smaller scale (i.e. not 200 unit buildings like Elan, Lime, etc.), right?

This will be a great condo conversion when market conditions are more favorable in the future. I agree there is certainly some demand in the 300k-400k range, but it must be very difficult to get financing. I guess lenders are still haunted by the condo market collapse of 2008.

[Archiapolis]

Condo development is dead because of the "Great Recession" (and resultant banking pull-back) AND, litigious society. This city is littered with developers, firms, and contractors who got in too deep and got sued to the gills. I think the demand IS there (look at what Stanton is doing), but the financing and legal difficulties are lingering specters that are holding back condo development...

[Archiapolis]

GCs all say that "little" infill projects "don't pencil out." What this one has going for it is the office components and the fact that you have a merchant builder developing the building AND occupying the leasable space - very atypical.

[FISHMANPET]

GCs all say that "little" infill projects "don't pencil out." What this one has going for it is the office components and the fact that you have a merchant builder developing the building AND occupying the leasable space - very atypical.

I certainly believe that they don't pencil out, but It'd be nice to get a sense of why exactly they don't. I think there are plenty of situations where small scale development would be preferable to a project that takes up a large portion of a block, and if there's some regulation holding these things back (probably parking, but maybe something else), at the very least it would be nice to know that it's happening, rather than just the assumption that developers are all greedy jerks who won't build anything unless it makes them a literal mountain of cash.

[Archiapolis]

GCs all say that "little" infill projects "don't pencil out." What this one has going for it is the office components and the fact that you have a merchant builder developing the building AND occupying the leasable space - very atypical.

I certainly believe that they don't pencil out, but It'd be nice to get a sense of why exactly they don't. I think there are plenty of situations where small scale development would be preferable to a project that takes up a large portion of a block, and if there's some regulation holding these things back (probably parking, but maybe something else), at the very least it would be nice to know that it's happening, rather than just the assumption that developers are all greedy jerks who won't build anything unless it makes them a literal mountain of cash.

There is a lot that goes into it obviously. I don't think it is disparaging to say that developers are in the business to make money but it I wonder how accurate the belief is that developers make "boatloads of money" - if it was that simple, there would be more people in the game. Capital is key though. I personally have never been involved in a project that was totally financed by a developer. Typically, the capital for projects comes partially from the developer, but primarily from banks and other investors. I'm no expert on the financing but my understanding is that investors generally are "first out" in terms of payout - they get their money first at closing. Bank loans can have a lot of moving parts, public financing is often in play and developers obviously try to make money also, either by holding a property or selling it.

Architecture firms hear that "small" or "infill" projects "don't pencil out" simply due to the economies of scale - more specifically, the LACK thereof. Contractors just don't have the leverage in buying small quantities. The new Vikings stadium is going to impact this dynamic and the apartment boom has a bubble nature to it that affects cost/pricing as well. It would be interesting (to me anyway) to hear from financing experts on the money behind recent development beyond my simplistic breakdown.

[twincitizen]

http://www.southwestjournal.com/news/ne ... lake-james



View from James Ave looking toward Lake St

[ECtransplant]

I'm not a fan of the blank wall at the corner

[seanrichardryan]

Well, it is just the alley face.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.948947, ... vRGUsg!2e0