East 38th Street & 38th St Station Development

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Realstreets
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East 38th Street & 38th St Station Development

Postby Realstreets » July 9th, 2014, 8:52 am

So the Marathon Gas at 2325 E 38th St recently closed. They only accepted cash, so no surprise. Anyone know how likely this is to get redeveloped? I know gas stations can be a problem with the underground tanks. Thoughts?

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Re: 2325 E 38th St - Marathon Gas

Postby schmitzm03 » July 9th, 2014, 10:50 am

Realstreets wrote:So this gas station recently closed. They only accepted cash, so no surprise. Anyone know how likely this is to get redeveloped? I know gas stations can be a problem with the underground tanks. Thoughts?
I used to work for a petroleum remediation program at the state, and you can tell from the active monitoring wells located on the east side of the property that it is highly likely there is some kind of contaminant plume (almost certainly petroleum, obviously). Hard to say if it is a problem for neighbors based on the current use, but even if it were a closed contaminated site with a stable plume, any disruption of soil could potentially mobilize contaminants. So, the MPCA would likely require the site to be cleaned up for any development. My understanding is that, unless the contaminants are interacting with the groundwater in a certain way, this is typically done by excavating the soil (which could be treated, or landfilled), and could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars (even into the millions if the plume is large, deep, or otherwise problematic).

There are a number of available funding sources that could be utilized to get the site cleaned up, but they are competitive.

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Re: 2325 E 38th St - Marathon Gas

Postby schmitzm03 » July 9th, 2014, 2:16 pm

Realstreets wrote:Thanks. I'm looking to buy a house near it. Thoughts? Contaminant plume sounds scary...
The leak site was closed in 2004 after excavating contaminated soil (the monitoring well I've seen must actually be sealed, although it doesn't look that way from driving by). MPCA shows it having contaminated soil still on site (http://cf.pca.state.mn.us/programs/lust ... =LS&tab=RD). Since it is closed, the contaminated soil may not be a problem. I have seen formerly closed sites re-opened, however. They will basically leave contamination in place whenever it is not currently threatening human health or the environment.

This is problematic, of course, since their analysis is typically based off of incredibly little information. Imagine soil and water samples as specks on a piece of paper, and trying to use these specks to guess some underlying shape they are meant to represent. Then make it three dimensional with various pathways pulsing through it, potentially making the shape move or creating a conduit for contaminant to escape into. This is essentially what they are dealing with when they investigate sub-surface soil/water contamination.

Often contaminant plumes are small and relatively stable. This is probably the case. Whatever the case, it would be very unusual for the site to be closed if there was a chance the contamination directly threatened the neighboring homes. It would be even more unusual for a gas station release (unless it was tremendous) to threaten more than just its immediate neighbors.

There are two tanks on site now (installed in 1997). The contamination was probably originally discovered when they removed leaking tanks to install the new ones. There has not been a release reported for them.

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Re: 2325 E 38th St - Marathon Gas

Postby Realstreets » September 24th, 2014, 11:20 am

Not a year ago that building with the cupcake shop was for sale. Now the lot next to it and the old sewing machine shop is for sale. I would like to see that trend continue down 38th st. I know CM Johnson has some hopes for intensifying the commercial uses along the corridor. Check out the area plan http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 264333.pdf. Note the C1 zoning for most of 38th st between Hiawatha and 23rd Ave S restricts uses like gas stations and automotive repair.

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Re: 2325 E 38th St - Marathon Gas

Postby twincitizen » September 24th, 2014, 1:01 pm

A full makeover of 38th street, at least between 35W and Hiawatha to start, would go a really long way in dispelling those impressions. The public infrastructure is pretty ugly. Unfortunately, with this no longer being a Hennepin County road, the City would have to be the recipient of a big state/federal grant to do this on their own.

Can you imagine a 38th Street with the full "Lake Street" treatment of bumpouts, benches, trees, pedestrian lighting, decorative fences screening vacant lots, etc.? Obviously it would be 2-lane, instead of 4-lane, but the streetscape package would be similar.

This is getting away from 2325 38th St, but where the heck is "Phase 2" of Station 38? I don't know if a Phase 2 was ever actually planned by anyone, but it seems so weird to leave those 6 single-family homes there. I hope some developer is playing the long game and already working on purchase agreements with those folks. The development could (and should) also include the Cardinal Bar site, as they could then build something like Oaks Station Place at 46th. Cardinal could open in the retail space of the development or build across 38th Street in their surface parking lot. In exchange, they could have access to parking in the new development.

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Re: 2325 E 38th St - Marathon Gas

Postby Realstreets » September 24th, 2014, 1:55 pm

Yeah this thread could be renamed E 38th St.

I didn't know there was ever a Station 38 phase 2. I used to live there and a phase 2 extending down to 38th st would be great. But please don't touch the Cardinal. Best burgers in town. To be honest I prefer the design of Station 38 to that of Oaks Station Place. The bus turn around is just kind of intrusive and I think deters from the asthetics of Oak Station Place.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby John21 » September 24th, 2014, 5:16 pm

Yeah, I don't recall any phase 2 of Station 38 either. Besides, The Cardinal isn't going anywhere. They just added some stone work to the outside of the building. Really classes up the joint! ;)

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 25th, 2014, 10:56 pm

Technically in Howe, this project seems to have flown under the radar:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/cip/all/WCMS1P-130099

It looks like 38th Street is being reconstructed from Hiawatha to Minnehaha Ave. This is a crucial connection for Longfellow/Howe residents accessing the 38th Street station. I work immediately adjacent to this project and walk it many times a week. Bike lanes and boulevards will be huge additions, but I think the proposed layout (http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 130131.pdf) falls short in a few areas. It looks like the curb radii remain pretty wide, and bump outs are missing to shorten east-west crossing distances. Also, just east of Hiawatha, it appears to remain the bleak, treeless, narrow sidewalked, and pork chopped wasteland that it is today. Being so close to the light rail station, this block/corner really needs to be as inviting for pedestrians as possible.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby Realstreets » September 26th, 2014, 9:04 am

The city need to get rid of those 7' parking lanes! There's no need for them and they encourage higher speeds. OR they could put in a cycle track but I won't hold my breath... For the life of me I can't figure out why parking is maintained along the short sides of blocks where there are no business.
Last edited by Realstreets on September 26th, 2014, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby Realstreets » September 26th, 2014, 9:09 am

FWIW, the City's master bike plan identified a gap in in the on street network on 42st going across Hiawatha. However, nothings been done about that in the last 3 years... Anyone know why on-street facilities for 38th weren't included in the master bike plan? I guess the city proposes bicycles ride north to the greenway or south to the non-existent facilities on 42nd...

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 26th, 2014, 9:28 am

Realstreets wrote:The city need to get rid of those 7' parking lanes! There's no need for them and they encourage higher speeds. OR they could put in a cycle track but I won't hold my breath... For the life of me I can't figure out why parking is maintained along the short sides of blocks where there are no business.
I'm confused... the 7' lanes are bike lanes (per the legend), not parking lanes.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 26th, 2014, 9:37 am

Realstreets wrote:Oops, I stand corrected.
Gotcha - wasn't sure if I was missing something.

PhilmerPhil, I too agree that from Hiawatha to the train tracks still seems pretty desolate. Hopefully with continued infill over the years, those stretches can be brought up to full boulevards as well. I think it's currently hard to try and force pedestrian amenities in a very industrial area (even if it's only limited industry). I don't know if they don't have the ROW at that corner to add blvds to that section or what. Not that I want to see the industrial uses gone - but having more mixed-use buildings sprout up along this stretch will certainly help connect the 38th Street Station to the east side of Hiawatha.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 26th, 2014, 10:01 am

Removing the dedicated right turn lane would allow for pedestrian amenity space here, and while the northeast corner is industrial, the southeast corner is slated to become retail. Even so, what do the land uses matter when this area is already packed with pedestrians going to catch the train? The city should sieze the opportunity to make this short block more inviting, rather than wasting fresh concrete as the county did in it's recent pedestrian "improvements" at this corner.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby seanrichardryan » September 26th, 2014, 10:27 am

Doesn't the geometry of the intersections make ped bulbs difficult here? Especially with bikelanes.
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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby fehler » September 26th, 2014, 11:42 am

There's two easy fixes to improve this corridor, Complete the retail portion of Longfellow Station, and redevelop the APA Medical Equipment building/lot. Build out those two blocks, and maybe Riverstone Spa's too large/ugly corner parking lot, and it'd be pretty good.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby twincitizen » September 26th, 2014, 12:57 pm

What should we call this thread? Standish-Ericsson? 38th Street Station Area? 38th Street Corridor?

I'm pretty optimistic about this whole area in general. I think 38th Street is the next frontier for more dense development on the south side. Not like 6-story dense, outside of transit station areas, but y'know, more than what's there now. It won't ever be a consistent string of commercial and mixed-use like Lake Street, but the important nodes could grow a lot stronger. Nicollet has really grown just in the last couple of years. The co-op will probably attract some nearby improvements at Clinton. Chicago will continue to improve as well. Bloomington and Cedar could both improve significantly. And finally, from 23rd Ave all the way to the Blue Line station could become a really consistent corridor, with more intense development along that whole stretch.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby Realstreets » September 29th, 2014, 7:26 am

twincitizen wrote:What should we call this thread? Standish-Ericsson? 38th Street Station Area? 38th Street Corridor?

38th Street Station Area, according to the City only includes 23rd Ave S to Hiawatha and Standish Ericsson doesn't encompass east of Hiawatha.

So what do we call this area?

To be honest I don't know what to call this whole area when people ask me where I live. Personally, I feel my immediate neighborhood would be bounded on the north by 35th Street and Minnehaha Ave to the east. The south and west are a little bit harder. While I would like it to go as far as I35, the western boundary would probably be something like Bloomington with the southern edge being Minnehaha Parkway.
twincitizen wrote:The co-op will probably attract some nearby improvements at Clinton. Chicago will continue to improve as well. Bloomington and Cedar could both improve significantly.

I agree with all of this but I think the Coop will be more in the Kingfield and Lyn-Lake neighborhoods.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 29th, 2014, 8:38 am

How about 'East 38th Street and Surrounding Neighborhoods'? Is that too clunky?

Realstreets, not sure what you mean by "the Coop will be more in the Kingfield and Lyn-Lake neighborhoods" when ground has already been broken at 38th and Clinton.

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby Realstreets » September 29th, 2014, 10:50 am

PhilmerPhil wrote:Realstreets, not sure what you mean by "the Coop will be more in the Kingfield and Lyn-Lake neighborhoods" when ground has already been broken at 38th and Clinton.
It's two blocks east of Kingfield's "boundaries." Technically it's in Bryant but nobody refers to that neighborhood as such. All I know is it's about a straight shot down 38th st from me, so I'm happy :D

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Re: Standish-Ericsson

Postby Realstreets » September 29th, 2014, 10:53 am

What about Hiawatha-Minnehaha neighborhood. Those two streets are parallel through the general area I think we are referring to. Maybe we should start a thread about renaming areas/neighborhood to reflect recent development patterns and characteristics?


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