South Nicollet Ave - Lake to Crosstown (Lyndale-Kingfield-Tangletown-Windom)

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
Archiapolis
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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 9th, 2016, 8:40 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
Archiapolis wrote:
mattaudio wrote:Planning Applications Report shows a plan for a 6-unit residential building on the vacant lot at 5605 Nicollet Ave, developed by Granite Hearth Properties, an LLC operating out of a mailbox at the UPS Store in St. Louis Park.
https://goo.gl/maps/1PQzpkeuzsM2
6 units?! Wha?!
Are you joking or sincere?
I'm registering great surprise. Let's just say that I have been monitoring "small scale development" very closely and I'm VERY surprised to see a development like this well outside of what I would classify as a "high demand" area. I just don't know how this works economically. I'm dying to see the proposal. Anyone have a link? I am aware that google exists and the city has a website but I'll also say that navigating the city's website has always seemed to be a bit like <insert something painful and confusing here>. I'd also be very happy to take a general link to current/active proposals or any other guidance on how to get at such information.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Silophant » March 9th, 2016, 8:52 am

Seconded. I can find staff reports through the CPC agenda links, but that requires knowing what meeting it was presented at, and people here seem to be able to find them and link to them before the show up on committee agendas.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 9th, 2016, 9:03 am

I agree that it boggles the mind how developers can/cant make smaller-scale developments like these profitable (I'd love to know how!), but there is a precedent on this street/block for multi-unit buildings that appear to vary between 2 and 20-something units. However, most of these were built 50+ years ago.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 9th, 2016, 9:25 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:I agree that it boggles the mind how developers can/cant make smaller-scale developments like these profitable (I'd love to know how!), but there is a precedent on this street/block for multi-unit buildings that appear to vary between 2 and 20-something units. However, most of these were built 50+ years ago.
We are probably venturing into "Minneapolis Zoning" thread territory (I know the admins like to compartmentalize) but I agree - tons of precedent out there, the economics are the most difficult part, hence my surprise about this proposal.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » March 9th, 2016, 10:23 am

If anyone wants details, supposedly the developer will be presenting at the Windom Community Council meeting tomorrow night.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby RailBaronYarr » March 9th, 2016, 10:27 am

My personal #hottake is that we should maybe be less surprised that something of this scale would go in at a place so far down Nicollet, or in a random neighborhood interior, or anywhere else. 6-stick buildings require a lot of effort and capital to build, demanding the type of rents we'd expect in hot spots, but there are just a ton of people looking to live in Minneapolis in a no-frills apartment with surface parking out back, and 5/6 of them will probably drive around most of the time (but that's okay! since it's better than 95% in some suburban apartment). I guess what I'm saying is that our strict zoning is not 100% responsive to the market, and it sure would be nice if a few more of these just sailed through permitting without anyone knowing.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby twincitizen » March 9th, 2016, 10:35 am

Ask and you shall receive: Smaller Scale Infill Development

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 9th, 2016, 11:08 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:My personal #hottake is that we should maybe be less surprised that something of this scale would go in at a place so far down Nicollet, or in a random neighborhood interior, or anywhere else. 6-stick buildings require a lot of effort and capital to build, demanding the type of rents we'd expect in hot spots, but there are just a ton of people looking to live in Minneapolis in a no-frills apartment with surface parking out back, and 5/6 of them will probably drive around most of the time (but that's okay! since it's better than 95% in some suburban apartment). I guess what I'm saying is that our strict zoning is not 100% responsive to the market, and it sure would be nice if a few more of these just sailed through permitting without anyone knowing.
I completely agree that the demand exists.

The two examples that you linked are very nice but I think there are a couple of distinctions with those two projects. I'd wager that the first project has top end finishes and commands a hefty rent and it is adjacent to a very nice neighborhood node. The second is adjacent to/part of a desirable neighborhood (real estate costs can support a project like this because it can get rents that the neighborhood market is getting). I'd wager that this second example also has high end finishes (to be market competitive albeit without amenity spaces).

What is less certain is when you strip away the very desirable neighborhood and the adjacency to a very nice neighborhood node and try to develop this kind of project in an overall less desirable neighborhood - what is the outcome? I'm excited that someone is taking that risk. I am ABSOLUTELY surprised to see this building being proposed "so far down Nicollet" because this neighborhood is not high end so I'm wondering how the rents are going to justify what is going to be a rough $/sf construction cost. Here is where the "5 over 1" type has hit a sweet spot - known quantity that GCs can price confidently, many comparables that developers, banks and financiers can evaluate pro formas against and rents that are well understood/known. None of these phenomena exist in these kinds of small projects because so few have been built/proposed. Lander Group built your first example and he obviously has a history/track record and no one knows how he financed that project - it would be very interesting to know.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » March 9th, 2016, 11:24 am

This small-scale infill can hit a sweet spot too.... Based on blending International Building Code and the Fair Housing Act, you can do single staircase construction, all wood framing, and no elevator IF "all main floor units are accessible." You can finance a 4plex with a standard FHA mortgage (yes, I know this is a 6plex, but still). There are decreased fire sprinkler riser ratings, meaning a much cheaper life safety configuration. There are definitely cost advantages to "going small," which is why I'm glad we're starting to see more of this.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 9th, 2016, 11:52 am

twincitizen wrote:Ask and you shall receive: Smaller Scale Infill Development
Thanks!

But...I know about that thread on this forum. I meant the link to this actual proposal from the developer to the city (as in the PDF). I see that there is a neighborhood meeting tonight. I'm going to try to go.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » March 9th, 2016, 12:00 pm

According to the planner, it's a 25MB PDF so she does not want to attach it via email. I wish they would just publish these faster on the city website. How else are we expected to provide timely input before or at the Planning Commission meeting? In this case, I'm very excited about what this project represents and am looking forward to providing positive feedback. Though I want to see the plans first.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 9th, 2016, 12:17 pm

mattaudio wrote:If anyone wants details, supposedly the developer will be presenting at the Windom Community Council meeting tomorrow night.
Where is this meeting happening? Windom School?

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby Archiapolis » March 10th, 2016, 7:54 am

mattaudio wrote:According to the planner, it's a 25MB PDF so she does not want to attach it via email. I wish they would just publish these faster on the city website. How else are we expected to provide timely input before or at the Planning Commission meeting? In this case, I'm very excited about what this project represents and am looking forward to providing positive feedback. Though I want to see the plans first.
Did you go to the meeting at Windom last night? I wanted to go but couldn't...

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby jw138 » April 1st, 2016, 10:43 am

Raman Kazama is adding 6 tables with seating for 24 on the sidewalk along 34th St:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 176703.pdf

Many times there's a line out the door so it's nice to see this increase in capacity.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » April 20th, 2016, 9:25 pm

Is there a project happening on the southwest corner of 44th and Nicollet?

Image
44th and Nicollet by Matt Steele, on Flickr

Streetview shows a SFH demoed there within the last year.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mulad » April 21st, 2016, 6:14 am

The county property map lists the parcel as being owned by "Northrup Real Estate LLC" since 2000. That's a similar name to "Northrup Properties LLC" which owns the commercial buildingl next door (on the right of your image). I'm guessing the house had been a rental property. That's all I know so far.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby LakeCharles » April 21st, 2016, 8:00 am

Yeah that was knocked down over a month ago. I have no idea what is happening, but I'll keep you posted. I walk by it every day.

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » May 3rd, 2016, 3:48 pm

Revival is expanding into the retail space next door.
http://minneapolis.eater.com/2016/5/3/1 ... mas-boemer

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby dingo » May 27th, 2016, 11:17 am

Archiapolis wrote:
mattaudio wrote:According to the planner, it's a 25MB PDF so she does not want to attach it via email. I wish they would just publish these faster on the city website. How else are we expected to provide timely input before or at the Planning Commission meeting? In this case, I'm very excited about what this project represents and am looking forward to providing positive feedback. Though I want to see the plans first.
Did you go to the meeting at Windom last night? I wanted to go but couldn't...
I just got an invite on NextDoor to a meeting of neighborhood people that are trying to kill this project. Which im surprised and not surprised by, considering its across the street from a larger scale apartment building. From what I can tell it mostly has to do with no parking in the plans...

http://www.minnehahacreek.org/sites/min ... uinn_0.pdf

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Re: South Nicollet (Lyndale & Kingfield)

Postby mattaudio » May 27th, 2016, 11:52 am

Wow, all 2BRs. Seems like a good plan.


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