Riverside Plaza

[gpete]

Minneapolis has rules about how many "unrelated" people can live together, but I don't know of any rules/laws regarding family size.

[twincitizen]

Correct. Zoning codes typically govern how many "unrelated" can live together, though this is almost always used to prevent single-family homes from turning into dormitories (most violators are near the U & St. Thomas). Building/housing codes govern how many humans can physically occupy a living space, defining what is/isn't a sleeping room, etc.

Folks at Riverside Plaza likely have nothing to worry about on the zoning side, as they can (at the very least) have 3 unrelated living together. It's the building/housing code regulating actual occupancy that is probably being violated in some units.

Landlords often have their own rules too about occupancy (i.e. no more than 2 adults in a studio, 2 -1 minor in a 1BR, 4 adults in a 2BR, etc. is probably common) but I have no idea how enforceable that stuff is. You'd think Sherman wouldn't tolerate any violations given that the amount of rent they get from a Section 8 voucher doesn't change from one tenant to the next. There is literally no benefit to the landlord to permit over-occupancy. Their income is the same - only maintenance expenses go up. And there's certainly no shortage of prospective tenants waiting in line if they kick current ones out.

[gpete]

Does anyone know? Does that Fair Housing Act cover discrimination related to family size?

[HiawathaGuy]

City code allows up to 6 or more family members, or a maximum of 5 total, if not all related.
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 100873.pdf

[twincitizen]

Right, that is the zoning side of the regulation, but it does not discuss the size of the unit, size of bedrooms, windows, etc.

There is a totally separate section of housing code that regulates the minimum size of bedrooms, definition of what a bedroom is, person capacity per square footage, etc. Totally separate from the above zoning regulations, which are more "technical" in nature (and again, mostly targeted at keeping college-age young people out of low-density neighborhoods).

While the zoning code may technically allow 5 adults to live in a 550 sf apartment if the place is zoned R5 & up, the housing code almost certainly would not. 2 adults and 3 kids under 18? Maybe? I would guess the capacity issues at Riverside Plaza are more of the latter (large families with 3+ kids and a grandparent or two) rather a bunch of unrelated adults. I'm not sure how to explain their ongoing parking issues though... The current residents are more likely to own cars than previous tenants? Families with multiple adults owning multiple cars? Not big users of public transit? Lots of taxi drivers? I dunno...

[FISHMANPET]

My wife teaches at night at Cedar Riverside. There's a parking lot that's empty at night because nobody is allowed to park there, whereas they previously were. So who knows what's going on.

Sent from my phone

[emily612apts]

Hey guys- Federal Fair Housing rules: maximum of 2 persons per bedroom, regardless of relation, and someone is considered a "person" once they reach 18 months of age. So technically a couple could have a baby and still live in a one bedroom apartment until the lease is up for renewal and the baby is older than 18 months old. They can renew the lease if the baby will be turning 18 months while in the middle of the lease, but wouldn't be able to extend after that. Landlords aren't able to make up their own rules or exceptions when it come to subsidized housing, inspections are done in order to maintain a family's status and having more than the allotted number of people in the apartment is a violation and the family would risk losing their subsidy.

[Tyler]

I don't think that is correct.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documen ... _35681.pdf

It's the landlords and housing agencies creating and enforcing maximums. If anything, the fair housing "rule" could be looked at as a minimum.

[emily612apts]

I'm in the industry, I deal with market rate and HUD all day log. Those are the standards.