Mozaic (all phases)

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
ukitrain
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby ukitrain » May 1st, 2017, 7:56 pm

Great street food served out of a window would work very well here. It is much more affordable, there are places to sit. Some people can take it to go and go for a walk by the lake, or on their way out of bars. Falafel or crepes would work very well.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby David Greene » May 1st, 2017, 8:33 pm

The latter. And Kilwin's is an institution throughout Michigan. They're extremely popular.

Honestly, is it too much to want smaller retail spaces? What is that all of a sudden a radical idea?

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Qhaberl
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby Qhaberl » May 2nd, 2017, 6:17 am

Just wanted to throw my two cents in. The nice thing about any type of new retail space is that it will one day be older. When that day comes, the space can be used for more small independent businesses. We seem to be building a lot of retail space around the area.

Retail space aside, I really just want to see the plans. I hope they look as beautiful as the old ones did.


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Nathan
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby Nathan » May 2nd, 2017, 7:02 am

ukitrain wrote:
May 1st, 2017, 7:56 pm
Great street food served out of a window would work very well here. It is much more affordable, there are places to sit. Some people can take it to go and go for a walk by the lake, or on their way out of bars. Falafel or crepes would work very well.
I wonder if the expanded plaza will be large enough for a food truck or two, that would be cool!

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby David Greene » May 2nd, 2017, 8:51 am

Qhaberl wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 6:17 am
Just wanted to throw my two cents in. The nice thing about any type of new retail space is that it will one day be older. When that day comes, the space can be used for more small independent businesses.
I dunno, can we put this "Free Market" B.S. to rest? Not that it won't eventually happen but it'll take 30-40 years. Almost no one cares about that when they're thinking about their community. We need to be intentional about supporting small independent businesses, not rely on Voodoo Economics.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby aeisenberg » May 2nd, 2017, 9:10 am

"I'm going to building this is all by myself."

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 2nd, 2017, 9:18 am

aeisenberg wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 9:10 am
"I'm going to building this is all by myself."

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby Qhaberl » May 2nd, 2017, 9:51 am

aeisenberg wrote:"I'm going to building this is all by myself."

Image
If you were taking that photo from a residential unit, you are going to have an excellent view of the building progress. How can they be tearing up the parking lot when they haven't even gotten final approval from the city?



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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby RailBaronYarr » May 2nd, 2017, 9:54 am

David Greene wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 8:51 am
I dunno, can we put this "Free Market" B.S. to rest? Not that it won't eventually happen but it'll take 30-40 years. Almost no one cares about that when they're thinking about their community. We need to be intentional about supporting small independent businesses, not rely on Voodoo Economics.
You know what David? My brother worked as a chef at Coup d'Etat (having worked at Borough before that), a large upscale restaurant in a brand new apartment building in the core of Uptown. That restaurant is local - owned by a group that manages just 6 restaurants, all in Minneapolis. I walked there a few times to eat with my wife and kid, so I, a member of this community, certainly benefit from it (whereas I have, maybe regrettably, never visited many of the small shops in the area). It provides tons of benefits to the community more broadly with its large patio and deck that make Uptown feel more alive at more hours of the day. Whether you want to address the point I made earlier or not, the new space for a place like that kept some other older commercial building from booting out its tenant for a higher-end restaurant. But it also paid my brother's salary (while living in an apartment over on the Mall) and gave him the experience necessary to then go get a gig at Piccolo and now he's opening up his own restaurant in that very space as a small business owner. So, I dunno. Nothing is black and white, maybe your Vision Of The Universe isn't the only one, and sometimes VooDoo economics works (even if you can't see it with your own eyes).

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby David Greene » May 2nd, 2017, 12:26 pm

Actually, I agree with your statement about preservation of old spaces. I was responding very specifically to the bit I quoted. That reasoning is brought up all the time to justify this-or-that (even outside development) and it's just not true in general. At least not true in any time scale most people care about.

The existing restaurants are assets as this new space will also be. I just question whether two large spaces is appropriate here.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby David Greene » May 2nd, 2017, 1:23 pm

I guess the question is whether there is a need/use for smaller, new retail spaces for mid-level small businesses that can't afford/don't need a larger space but can't find a smaller one in the area or don't want an older space for whatever reason. I don't know. But it seems like most every new retail space in the area has been on the larger side. If there's more market for that, fine I guess but this area with the plaza is a unique place and it seems like more, smaller shops would use/drive foot traffic better than two larger ones.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby twincitizen » May 2nd, 2017, 1:27 pm

Qhaberl wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 9:51 am
How can they be tearing up the parking lot when they haven't even gotten final approval from the city?
You can get a demolition permit without having land use approvals in place (especially if it's just a parking lot and not a building).

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby RailBaronYarr » May 2nd, 2017, 1:33 pm

My take is that any regulation to force smaller units (even if I might agree they're slightly better from a pedestrian experience perspective) will likely end up with either:
1) VERY high-end retail uses that local/upstart businesses will have difficulty affording (ex. Apple Store, Fjällräven, that fancy hat shop next to the Uptown hat shop)
2) nothing at all, maybe a single cafe or just expanded amenity space for the office/residential areas above it

Maybe we'll get lucky 1-2 times in 10 and the financing structure for the new building combined with required smaller (less desirable as a result) commercial spaces will net us retail uses we like/need. Maybe I'm entirely wrong. I still think if there's an actual need (and community desire) for more neighborhood-serving retail at cheap rents, let's legalize it in a few more places. That comic book shop said he budgets $3,000/mo for his space. Hard to imagine there we lack building owners in the Wedge/CARAG that wouldn't take that offer up.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby MNdible » May 2nd, 2017, 1:39 pm

I'd point out that the more important metric here really ought to be the depth of retail space, not the square footage, since it's generally a fairly inexpensive operation to add more doors to a retail frontage. But a space that's very deep limits its viability for subdivision.

One other thing that complicates designing a small retail spaces is providing access to common restrooms, trashrooms, loading, etc. for multiple tenants. These are things that tend to be handled ad hoc in older buildings, but need to be done properly in new construction.

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby David Greene » May 2nd, 2017, 1:43 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 1:33 pm
I still think if there's an actual need (and community desire) for more neighborhood-serving retail at cheap rents, let's legalize it in a few more places. That comic book shop said he budgets $3,000/mo for his space. Hard to imagine there we lack building owners in the Wedge/CARAG that wouldn't take that offer up.
Abso-freaking-lutely. ACUs! (Alternative Commercial Units)

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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby TroyGBiv » May 3rd, 2017, 12:14 am

http://finance-commerce.com/files/2015/ ... 00x330.jpg

I wonder how close it will end up looking this this rendering from 2015?

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 3rd, 2017, 7:44 am

Very much not like that (though it's keeping the three tiers). They went back to the drawing board when Code42 dropped out. The original building had been designed for them, and they couldn't make the building flexible for multiple tenants.
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby min-chi-cbus » May 3rd, 2017, 8:29 am

David Greene wrote:
May 2nd, 2017, 1:23 pm
I guess the question is whether there is a need/use for smaller, new retail spaces for mid-level small businesses that can't afford/don't need a larger space but can't find a smaller one in the area or don't want an older space for whatever reason. I don't know. But it seems like most every new retail space in the area has been on the larger side. If there's more market for that, fine I guess but this area with the plaza is a unique place and it seems like more, smaller shops would use/drive foot traffic better than two larger ones.
I guess, ultimately, it's whatever the marketplace supports. If the developer is penciling this stuff out and determines that they can get the most occupancy/rent with larger, commercial tenants, then that's probably what they'll build. Similarly, if they find that more, smaller spaces that serve smaller/newer businesses would yield the most rent, then that'll surface instead. I agree, however, that it'd be nice if somebody could figure out a way to make it work so that more, smaller businesses occupy newly-built spaces, but I get why it doesn't occur more often.
Last edited by min-chi-cbus on May 3rd, 2017, 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Qhaberl
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby Qhaberl » May 3rd, 2017, 8:30 am

FISHMANPET wrote:Very much not like that (though it's keeping the three tiers). They went back to the drawing board when Code42 dropped out. The original building had been designed for them, and they couldn't make the building flexible for multiple tenants.
Did they keep the same color scheme. If I remember correctly, the old building had an exterior that looked orange. Based on what I can remember, it kind of looked like the exterior of the new HCMC expansion.


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FISHMANPET
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Re: Mozaic (all phases)

Postby FISHMANPET » May 3rd, 2017, 9:08 am

No, different color scheme. They said they're going with some color shifting metal that was "lavender" in the renderings, but at least in the angle that rendering is, there's going to be far more glass than there is in that rendering.

And yeah Hennepin County loves that orange metal, they did it on both HCMC and the South Side Service Center at Hi-Lake.
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