Hiawatha-Minnehaha Ave Development & RR Corridor/Grain Elevators

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amiller92
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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby amiller92 » November 9th, 2017, 9:53 am

Ugh, that's terrible. Why are developers so lacking in ambition for these parcels??

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sdho
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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby sdho » November 9th, 2017, 11:45 pm

One idea I'd thought about in general re: drive-thrus is that, rather than only restricting them in select pedestrian-friendly districts, we might reach a point where they are disallowed in all districts *except* in specific highway overlay districts, where the benefit is highest and the impact to others is the lowest. In my mind in Minneapolis, places where that might apply would be locations like New Brighton Blvd, parts of Hiawatha Ave, and maybe the west side of 280.

What's striking about this site is that if we did have a set-up like that -- wouldn't this exact site probably be what we might call a "highway overlay district"? It's between Hiawatha and the LRT, evenly spaced >1/2 mile from stations.

I'm not sure there's ever a right place for a Dominos drive-thru, but if there were, it seems like this as good as any. However, I would really like to see the pedestrian circulation improved. If coming from Hiawatha to go to Starbucks, your sanctioned route would be to go down 42nd, cross the first drive-thru exit to the street, and then cross two more drive-thru aisles within the site -- all while walking around 2 sides of a triangle.

The westernmost curb cut seems way too close to Hiawatha to allow for a new development.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby amiller92 » November 10th, 2017, 11:37 am

I agree that if we're going to have drive thrus, this is where we'd allow them. I'd probably prefer that we decide not to, but yeah, I don't expect my view to win out.

But my issue isn't primarily the drive through. It's why not do a not more with this space? Granted, it's not terribly big and it's right next to a busy highway-like road thing, but if it works to renovate the old warehouse/factory up the street for housing, why not some housing plus retail here?

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby FISHMANPET » November 10th, 2017, 11:59 am

With the light rail there I'd say we shouldn't plan for this area to be a freeway area in the future. Remember, comp plans and zoning are aspirational, it's not about what is, but what we want to be. Do we want this corridor to be a highway, or do we want something better?

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby MNdible » November 10th, 2017, 2:29 pm

Get rid of zoning, let the market decide what's best, except for when the market decides that's what best is a stupid Domino's drive thru.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby RailBaronYarr » November 10th, 2017, 3:05 pm

Yeah there's a real good hot take that already made that point.

If I'm being honest, if you told me that we could eliminate every part of zoning but segregating truly noxious uses that can't be mitigated through design (your standard pig farm or refinery boogeyman) for the next 50-100 years and let housing and commercial of any kind go anywhere and everywhere even if it mean crummy drive-thrus and gas stations here and there, I'd take it. As it is, most liberal pro-market urbanists fight a more nuanced fight making the case for why allowing more housing in neighborhoods has few negative externalities and many positive ones, while things like drive-thrus are the opposite, and our regulatory environment should reflect that.

As for this site/corridor - I think path dependency and MnDOT designations will need to change before the market will follow. Even if we zoned every parcel along Hiawatha as if it were a beautiful boulevard in Paris, nobody gonna build that until Hiawatha is redesigned.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby tmart » November 10th, 2017, 5:03 pm

That article is arguing a deeply flawed premise. It's kind of dangerous in my opinion that American politics is so obsessed with arguing about whether "regulations" are good or bad, on an abstract or even moral level. It's an utterly meaningless debate that goes back, basically, to our nation's founding.

Some regulations are effective and some aren't. It's OK to evaluate each one critically, and it doesn't make you a hypocrite to say that our land-use laws are too restrictive, and our conditions for building drive-thrus are too permissive.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby sdho » November 11th, 2017, 9:26 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
November 10th, 2017, 11:59 am
With the light rail there I'd say we shouldn't plan for this area to be a freeway area in the future. Remember, comp plans and zoning are aspirational, it's not about what is, but what we want to be. Do we want this corridor to be a highway, or do we want something better?
I think "what Hiawatha should be" seems to remain unanswered and confused. The way it's cut off from the neighborhood to the west seems like it would make it really hard to be a good urban boulevard. I'm not sure a freeway would be terrible, as long as it stays limited to two lanes in either direction. In all likelihood, it will probably stay the half-baked expressway with some redeeming urban nodes it is today. I think that conflict is best exemplified by 15-year-old SPUI that they are now looking at how to largely undo.

The upside with the mediocre uses on this site is that they're not particularly valuable improvements. If a 42nd St LRT stop were added, or something shifted in the market, the barrier to scraping these and redoing the site would not be nearly as much as if it were built as an apartment or office building.

(I've been reminding myself of this when I've been bummed out about a similar disappointing drive-thru in my own neighborhood)

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby mattaudio » November 12th, 2017, 2:01 pm

sdho wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 9:26 pm
If a 42nd St LRT stop were added
I've actually wondered if we could get some infill LRT stops here, 42nd and 26th Streets being the two I'd like to see happen.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby fehler » April 17th, 2018, 1:29 pm

Also from Nextdoor, Andrew Johnson notes a meeting on the Dominos/Starbucks and a meeting next week for the U-Haul proposal.
Andrew Johnson, Howe 4d ago
The meeting today was an informal step where the Planning Commission provides feedback to developers on their proposals before they submit their final application (which results in a formal public hearing, a staff report, discussion, and a vote).

My understanding is that the Domino's up the street will be relocating here (should the project be built). I strongly encouraged the developer to add greater density/housing to this site, but he will not be doing so.

Residents with an opinion on this project are strongly encouraged to participate in the process by sending a letter to be added to the record, along with attending the public hearing (once it is scheduled). You can email comments to me and I will pass them along to our staff for inclusion in the public record: andrew.johnson@minneapolismn.gov

Another proposal happening across the street is for a five-story tall self-storage and truck rental facility being proposed by U-Haul (SE corner of 42nd and Hiawatha). The public meeting for that one is scheduled for Monday, April 23, 2018 at 4:30 p.m., in Room 317 City Hall, 350 S. 5th St., Minneapolis, MN. Plans will be available for your review a few days before the meeting via http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/planning and comments can be emailed to the assigned City Planner for inclusion in the public record at: Hilary.Dvorak@minneapolismn.gov

I believe Longfellow Community Council and Standish-Ericsson Neighborhood Association have both formally expressed concerns to the City regarding the U-Haul proposal.

(Please note: Because of the quasi-judicial nature of zoning decisions, I am legally prohibited from expressing support or opposition for these projects prior to a potential vote on them.)

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby minneboom » April 17th, 2018, 9:46 pm

They are going before the planning commission on April 23rd to try and get approval for the project. You can find the plans at the link below.

https://longfellow.org/2018/04/06/publi ... ha-avenue/

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby fehler » April 18th, 2018, 9:49 am

Interesting, the unfinished phase two of the 42nd Street Lofts may be converted to a 29-bed Memory Care facility. That's a bit of a squeeze, considering the building was originally designed for 6 units. And the proposed 3rd phase lot would become surface parking.

https://longfellow.org/2018/04/06/publi ... ht-avenue/

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby bapster2006 » April 18th, 2018, 4:14 pm

minneboom wrote:
April 17th, 2018, 9:46 pm
They are going before the planning commission on April 23rd to try and get approval for the project U-Haul.
City staff is recommending to deny.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby mattaudio » May 2nd, 2018, 1:30 pm

The new CPC agenda lists the Domino's/Starbuck's requests as withdrawn. I called CM Johnson's office, and his staff confirmed the applicant is looking to submit a different application down the road that incorporates community feedback.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby John21 » May 2nd, 2018, 4:33 pm

Good. What ever happened with the Uhaul proposal?

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby bapster2006 » May 2nd, 2018, 4:55 pm

Staff recommended to deny the U-haul proposal, but it was continued until the May 21 meeting.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby John21 » May 19th, 2018, 7:52 am

In an email update from CM Johnson-
Two big development updates recently occurred, both at Hiawatha Avenue & 42nd Street. First, the Starbucks and Domino's proposal was pulled by the developer after significant concerns were raised by residents, neighborhood associations (LCC & SENA), and the Planning Commission. The developer has since decided to pursue a mixed-use building that includes 40-units of housing, eliminates one of the drive-thrus, and hides the other behind and under the building; it is a dramatic improvement, and can be described as going from a suburban design to urban design (more details will be posted to my Facebook page when available). Second, the proposal for a five-story self-storage facility was pulled by U-Haul after staff recommended denial of the proposal; they are considering options at this time - whether to seek Planning Commission approval despite the recommended denial, to convert the single-story warehouse to a self-storage facility, or to go back to the drawing board and integrate housing and active commercial space into their project

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby John21 » May 29th, 2018, 4:17 pm

http://www.longfellownokomismessenger.c ... g-for-now/
The current plan has space for two to three businesses on the main level, with a drive-through behind and under the building that is not visible from Hiawatha.

On the next three floors are 40 units of micro-apartments with one bedroom or less. These smaller apartments for singles or couples are one way to make housing units more affordable, explained Boosalis.

The plan calls for about 20 parking spaces. It is not anticipated that residents would have vehicles, but would instead use light rail, bike or walk.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby amiller92 » May 30th, 2018, 8:47 am

Well that looks like a big improvement.

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Re: Hiawatha-Minnehaha Avenue Development & Grain Elevators/Freight Corridor

Postby Silophant » June 7th, 2018, 7:26 pm

Here's the packet. 43 units, 20 surface parking spaces - all listed as short-term for the Starbucks/Dominos, not for the apartments.

Also, maybe I just don't get it because I'm not a coffee drinker, but holy crap are they putting a lot of effort into getting a drive-through to work.


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