Southwest - General Topics (Linden Hills, Fulton, et al)

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
martykoessel
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The Waters of 50th

Postby martykoessel » March 18th, 2013, 8:54 am

Construction has begun on this long-fallow land on 50th near the ritzy 50th and France intersection. I believe that this lot, once occupied by a funeral home, was targeted as a condo development before the big bust.
http://www.thewatersseniorliving.com/se ... iving/5285

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mister.shoes
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby mister.shoes » March 18th, 2013, 9:03 am

You are right; it was supposed to be extremely fancy French-themed condos. I lived in the area (and drove past the lot on my daily commute) when they knocked down the funeral home and put up the big signs advertising the development that never happened. It's good to see that something is finally going to replace the weeds and dirt piles.
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MNdible
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby MNdible » March 18th, 2013, 9:47 am

The rendering makes it appear that there's a huge setback and drop off in front, which would be disappointing (especially if that's 50th Street in front).

I'll shed a tear for the original development, which had some really interesting ideas and floor plans.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 18th, 2013, 9:48 am

It's the same scale as the previous no-go proposal, but geared towared Seniors (if you're familiar with the area you'd know that it's chock-full of seniors already!). I like it -- it's a bit suburban-looking but it also looks like something out of Beverly hills, with its driveway entrance behind the sidewalk designed to look more like a front lawn plaza than just a green space/setback. We'll see how this fits in with the neighborhood......there's still a gap between it and the rest of the higher-intensity 50th & France area, and I'll continue to be interested in seeing whether or not that gap gets completely filled in one day. The ultimate would be a link to Xerxes and/or Penn, but that's just not realistic anytime soon.

nordeast homer
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby nordeast homer » March 18th, 2013, 11:03 am

I'm usually a fan of larger developments, but I think this one is going to stick out like a sore thumb. I almost wish this would have turned into brownstones or single family homes. I think the original condo development fit in a little better than this will.
BTW - I went to high school at Southwest and they had a social studies class that would visit the Werness Brothers funeral home that used to be on site here, lots of kids would be sick that day for some reason...

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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby seanrichardryan » March 18th, 2013, 11:17 am

They're looking for tax credits to do affordable.units... Whoops, we thought we could build.them.... http://finance-commerce.com/2013/03/fin ... lis-units/
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min-chi-cbus
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 18th, 2013, 3:45 pm

So does that mean this new project is already a no-go?? I have no idea how any affordable housing could be put here -- I've heard that the land values are ridiculous here which is probably why it's hard to develop (hard to charge enough to offset the fixed costs incl. land).

612transplant
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby 612transplant » March 18th, 2013, 7:08 pm

On the bright side, we have a new challenger to Lime for the title of "stupidest project name in the metro."

min-chi-cbus
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 18th, 2013, 7:43 pm

Really? I have no problem with "The Waters of 50th".

twincitizen
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby twincitizen » March 18th, 2013, 8:31 pm

This developer calls all of their senior living residences the same thing: The Waters of ________. There are a handful of them around the metro already. Does that change your mind any?

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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby John » March 18th, 2013, 10:15 pm

The Waters of 50th is just fine as the name for this project, and I think a continuum of care facility for the elderly is appropriate as far as land use for this parcel, and for the needs of the surrounding community. The problem is the design which doesn't fit in well with the neighborhood. It needs to have a better relationship with the character of the 50th and France retail node, etc. It looks too suburban and I'm not sure the developer "gets it" as far as building something within a more urban context. This is a too frequent problem in Minneapolis with developers! It gets irritating :x

min-chi-cbus
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 19th, 2013, 8:36 am

twincitizen wrote:This developer calls all of their senior living residences the same thing: The Waters of ________. There are a handful of them around the metro already. Does that change your mind any?
No....but hate away if you hate it, I just am not on that bandwagon yet.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 19th, 2013, 8:37 am

John wrote:The Waters of 50th is just fine as the name for this project, and I think a continuum of care facility for the elderly is appropriate as far as land use for this parcel, and for the needs of the surrounding community. The problem is the design which doesn't fit in well with the neighborhood. It needs to have a better relationship with the character of the 50th and France retail node, etc. It looks too suburban and I'm not sure the developer "gets it" as far as building something within a more urban context. This is a too frequent problem in Minneapolis with developers! It gets irritating :x
I was hoping the rendering didn't capture the true character of the project, but I'm afraid you're right that it's too suburban and/or not in character with the rest of 50th & France. Perhaps a revision is necessary (If the project is still alive....).

TWA
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby TWA » March 19th, 2013, 8:53 am

While I agree it's important to have a design that fits the neighborhood, at the same time this is a senior development and the developers have little care in adding to the streetscape. So this totally falls on the local review boards requiring changes to the design. The developers know that most of their residents aren't walking or biking or taking public transport. They are getting visitors by car or taking their shuttle to do shopping in the area. So all the developer cares about is making a building that looks inviting and comfortable to old people and at the most economical rate. Why waste more money on a design process of making a more urban design when your tenants don't care about or necessarily want those things.

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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby John » March 19th, 2013, 9:02 am

MNdible wrote:The rendering makes it appear that there's a huge setback and drop off in front, which would be disappointing (especially if that's 50th Street in front).
Yes , I think that's part of the problem. At least if some of the complex came up to the street it would be better. Plus a more asymmetrical massing with a step down design at the edges to mitigate its scale. It reminds me too much of a stand alone apartment project near a freeway interchange.

^^^TWA, I get what your saying. But take a look at Lupe's proposal for senior housing in the Mill District. That proposal's design is much better at working with the character of the area. It can be done. My hunch is really the developer of 50th is a decent person wanting to make a good project. He just doesn't understand the idea of designing a building to fit within an urban context. He's of a suburban mindset. It's ignorance. :|

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woofner
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby woofner » March 19th, 2013, 9:51 am

This thing passed the Planning Commission in January 2012 so they've taken the site plan down already. However, the staff report says that there is a 16' landscaped yard on 50th (considered the side yard for this lot) and the curb cuts for the driveway will be 24' wide, so that implies a 30-35' setback from 50th (I believe the code requires a 5' landscaped buffer between parking lots & residential structures, not sure if the driveway counts but there will be 9 surface spaces provided and I'm not sure where else they'd go). That actually makes the setback similar to that of the Wuollet's building across Chowen, although it'll be way deeper than the setback on the duplex across Beard and the setbacks on the other side of 50th.

I'd agree with those who blame code deficiencies for allowing a suburban design here. For starters, how about removing the height based additions to the minimum setback formula (side yards must be 8+2x' where x is the number of stories). Next, how about adding a maximum setback? I'd suggest an average of the setback of existing structures within 100', plus 5', to a maximum of 20'.
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby MNdible » March 19th, 2013, 10:08 am

TWA wrote:The developers know that most of their residents aren't walking or biking or taking public transport.


Not entirely sure what spectrum of care this facility is targeting, but I think that it's generally more important that senior facilities be walkable because the residents have little other options in the way of transportation. For me, that would be one of the main reasons to site a facility like this within an easy walk of 50th and France. I know my grandmother, who hasn't driven in probably 20 years, does an awful lot of walking around the neighborhood from her senior building.

TWA
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Re: The Waters of 50th

Postby TWA » March 19th, 2013, 11:14 am

^ that's good she can do that. Personally I had to do the tour of a bunch of the senior housing around the centennial lakes area several years ago for my family. You are right, it does depend on the type of care offered, which I do not know. Just personally noticed that the current senior housing options were all car and shuttle-centric. Not saying it is the best option, but in the eye of the developer he/she may be less inclined to put in the work to better the design if the current model is guaranteed to make money and get easy approval from the city. That's just my pessimism talking.

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Linden Hills: Bayers Hardware site

Postby gpete » April 4th, 2013, 7:26 am

Just saw these plans for the old Bayers Hardware site in Linden Hills on the Planning Commission agenda for next week. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 106257.pdf

Expansion of the existing building into their back parking lot, allowing room for two distinct tenants at that site. Reducing the parking lot size by four spaces and the new space looks to be a restaurant or cafe space with outdoor patio.

ECtransplant
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Re: Linden Hills: Bayers Hardware site

Postby ECtransplant » April 4th, 2013, 11:11 am

I'm sure the NIMBYs will not tolerate the loss of any parking


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