Lake Calhoun / Bde Maka Ska

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
anders
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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby anders » June 26th, 2015, 8:54 am

mplsjaromir wrote:The Dakota were almost certainly not the first people to neighbor the lake. More likely five or six discrete peoples inhabited the area before the arrival of Europeans.

Almost any name would be better Calhoun.
That's a bit pedantic, and in any case, the Dakota were certainly there before the Europeans or U.S. Army.

Are there records of any older names? I'd be happy to learn about them.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby mattaudio » June 26th, 2015, 9:00 am

Lake Ventura? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby mulad » June 26th, 2015, 9:46 am

As I recall, he took that name from Ventura Boulevard in California, so you could have a road named after a lake named after a guy named after a road.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby MNdible » June 26th, 2015, 10:20 am

anders wrote:That's a bit pedantic, and in any case, the Dakota were certainly there before the Europeans or U.S. Army.

Are there records of any older names? I'd be happy to learn about them.


I think it's a salient point. Why should we be falling all over ourselves to name it what somebody else called it, especially since their presence there was pretty transitory? Based on some brief research, it looks like the Europeans have been hanging around Lake Calhoun for longer than the Dakota were.

Trying to pick "the original" name seems like an unnecessary gesture. What did the Etruscans call Rome before the Romans took it over?

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby EOst » June 26th, 2015, 10:24 am

MNdible wrote:What did the Etruscans call Rome before the Romans took it over?
That's kind of a circular question; they weren't Romans until they settled in Rome (which is probably actually the Etruscan name, though no-one really knows for sure).

If I had dictatorial power, I'd probably name it after Hubert Humphrey, a man who did more to advance the cause of civil rights in this country than basically any other politician in his generation. But that's just me.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby MNdible » June 26th, 2015, 10:48 am

EOst wrote:That's kind of a circular question; they weren't Romans until they settled in Rome (which is probably actually the Etruscan name, though no-one really knows for sure).
Point taken.
EOst wrote:I'd probably name it after Hubert Humphrey, a man who did more to advance the cause of civil rights in this country than basically any other politician in his generation. But that's just me.
I'd tend to agree. The fact that he's buried at Lakewood is a nice touch.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby JordanWasaN » June 26th, 2015, 8:51 pm

MNdible wrote:
anders wrote:That's a bit pedantic, and in any case, the Dakota were certainly there before the Europeans or U.S. Army.

Are there records of any older names? I'd be happy to learn about them.


I think it's a salient point. Why should we be falling all over ourselves to name it what somebody else called it, especially since their presence there was pretty transitory? Based on some brief research, it looks like the Europeans have been hanging around Lake Calhoun for longer than the Dakota were.

Trying to pick "the original" name seems like an unnecessary gesture. What did the Etruscans call Rome before the Romans took it over?
One: Are, not were. There are still Dakota in MSP, and in greater Minnesota, despite the majority of the survivors of the U.S.-Dakota War being removed.

Two: You're accepting (even arguing for) the continued erasure of Indigenous identity and history from the region.

Three: While pre-contact Dakota life was not as "settled" as the Euro-American invaders, their presence and control of this area was long established, with their agricultural and hunting practices shaped to the area's particular ecosystem and having framed their religious identity to the region. Your "brief research" should have informed you that Mnirara (St Anthony Falls) and Bdote (at Fort Snelling) both were and remain sacred to the Dakota oyate.
The Dakota (as a people currently constituted) have been in Minnesota for centuries, and are descendants of the "Mississippian culture" (along with other Siouan peoples like the Dhegiha and Chiwere speaking nations) that established its presence in the area centuries before contact.

Anyway, while renaming Lake Calhoun with a name used before Europeans invaded would be a mostly insignificant gesture in recognizing the Indigenous presence in the region, it's still something. Certainly better than the lake being named after a racist POS.

mattaudio
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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby mattaudio » June 27th, 2015, 10:09 am

Mystic Lake? The perfect blend of Dakota and Anglicized cultures?

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby BigIdeasGuy » June 27th, 2015, 12:19 pm

Everyone knows that if/when Lake Calhoun is renamed most people are going to continue to call it Lake Calhoun right?

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby Anondson » June 27th, 2015, 12:31 pm

If it's going to be renamed to the Dakota name, I just want to know what that one name is. Far too many variations, Just read another calling it Bde Maka Ska. It's like the lake name version of Qadafi Gadafi Kadafi whatever. ;)

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby kirby96 » June 29th, 2015, 11:09 am

grant1simons2 wrote:Lake Wellstone
Can't do that. He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby EOst » June 29th, 2015, 11:20 am

kirby96 wrote:Can't do that. He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act.
And later apologized for it.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby kirby96 » June 29th, 2015, 11:36 am

EOst wrote:
kirby96 wrote:Can't do that. He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act.
And later apologized for it.
Yes, but I'm sure that in another fifty years or so voting for something like DOMA will be considered so anathema that the popular opinion of the time won't judge it as something you can simply apologize your way out of.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby mplsjaromir » June 29th, 2015, 11:41 am

Zionism gonna look much worse.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby MNdible » September 28th, 2015, 1:50 pm

All sorts of interesting twists and turns in this Strib article about how the re-naming of Lake Calhoun has become unshockingly political:
The Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community, the nearest federally recognized tribe, took a diplomatic approach when consulted by the Star Tribune. It said in a statement it is not aware of reliable evidence that ancestors had a specific Dakota name for the lake. It noted that missionary Samuel Pond’s 1893 book claimed that the Dakota called it “the inland lake,” but acknowledged some sources use the loon and white earth names.
In Minneapolis, Dakota advocates such as historian Kate Beane portray Bde Maka Ska as a name restoration rather than a name change. But others question the right of the Dakota to do so. They call the Dakota interlopers in the Twin Cities who established residence here only after a series of battles before white settlement that displaced the Iowa tribe. They say that the Dakota were pushed into the area by Ojibway pressure from the North. The main reason the village at Calhoun was abandoned was fear of retaliation after what Pond described as a massacre by warriors of an Ojibway party, mostly women and children.
Anyway, if we're going to insist on using a Dakota name for it, could we at least try to avoid making the mistake of Lake Mille Lacs and not have both the English and Dakota words for "Lake" in the name?

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby seanrichardryan » September 28th, 2015, 3:16 pm

Boy, pretend equity sure is hard work.
Last edited by seanrichardryan on September 28th, 2015, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby twincitizen » September 28th, 2015, 3:16 pm

Can anyone confirm that "Mde" and "Bde" in fact mean "Lake"?

If so, "Lake Maka Ska" actually sounds pretty cool, and I could probably come around to it. It's the unpronouncable "m'day" or "bidet" that don't sit well with me.

(This coming from a guy whose initial reaction was strongly against changing the name, instead preferring to "re-dedicate" the name to a different Calhoun person)

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Anondson
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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby Anondson » September 28th, 2015, 4:49 pm

Mde bde, that's all folks!

I'd like it as Lake Medoza or Lake Maka Ska too. Just pick one and let's do it.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby acs » September 28th, 2015, 6:36 pm

Lake Calhoun has been the most widely used name throughout recorded history, so if we're going to go through the effort to rename it I wouldn't go with something far less historically correct and far less pronounceable. Pick something simple and forward thinking, like Lake Minneapolis.

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Re: Lake Calhoun

Postby seanrichardryan » September 28th, 2015, 7:28 pm

But that won't make me feel good about being a white person.
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