Hi-Lake - Minnehaha Mall (Target/Cub) - Downtown Longfellow

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
HiawathaGuy
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Re: Southside - General Topics

Postby HiawathaGuy » February 10th, 2016, 9:36 am

lordmoke wrote:I really can't imagine Supervalu leaving that old Rainbow undeveloped for long. They're just paying taxes on worthless property right now. Fill it with apartments and you have a (potentially) large amount of captive shoppers for your store across the street.
The old Rainbow building, it's parking lot & the adjacent Wendy's are all owned by:

Minnehaha/Lake Partners
C/O WATSON CENTERS INC
3100 WEST LAKE ST SUITE 215
MPLS MN 55416

I'd have to believe they are looking at options - but Supervalu has nothing to do with any of them.

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby mattaudio » February 10th, 2016, 9:39 am

Though SuperValu may still have strings to pull... Did they terminate their lease? They may still have the ability to prevent grocery tenants, etc in any redevelopment (similar to WalMart's control over their short-lived and now-vacant St. Anthony site).

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby Qhaberl » February 26th, 2016, 8:38 pm

As A blind traveler, the intersection of Hiawatha at Lake Street is a complete disaster! It is great to see the development taking place west of Hiawatha and south of Lake. If my memory serves me right, they will be demolishing the adult education center in 2017.

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby minneboom » March 2nd, 2016, 12:11 am

Just a heads up, but the study on Hi-Lake intersection to be presented to Land Use & Housing committee meeting at Corcoran Neighborhood Organization, 3451 Cedar Ave S, on March 3rd, 6:00pm.

http://www.corcoranneighborhood.org/lan ... g_20160303

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby minneboom » March 7th, 2016, 7:22 pm

The Star Tribune just ran an article about the recent work done to improve the the Hiawatha-Lake intersection. This is a great start, and it would be beneficial if they also studied options for replacing the bridge or tunneling Highway 55 under Lake Street. The bridge is massive and creates terrible urban space underneath and around it. You have got the beautiful Snow Kreilich designed Light Rail Station, the Sabo Bridge, and the AIA Honor Award winning Xcel Energy Substation, all dwarfed by this ugly bridge. Given the cost of all the suggested changes, it seems like a redesign of the bridge should also be on the table.

The original article can be found here.
http://www.startribune.com/crosswalks-a ... 371225691/

The full study can be found here.
tinyurl.com/HiLakeStudy

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby FISHMANPET » March 7th, 2016, 7:50 pm

Yeah that's nowhere near on the table, and even if it was I'd say it was a huge waste of limited funds. All of the Tier III options, which cost up to $6 million, keep the existing bridge. Maybe when it's older and we're looking at replacing it we can look at tearing it down, but that sounds like a waste right now.

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby minneboom » March 7th, 2016, 8:28 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:Yeah that's nowhere near on the table, and even if it was I'd say it was a huge waste of limited funds
It is not a bad idea to think bigger about this intersection, especially given all the public amenities around the site (South High School, YMCA, Midtown Farmer Market, Midtown Greenway, Green Line, Downtown Longfellow, Harriet Brewing, future Midtown Light Rail). If has the possibility to drastically transform this site, it would not be a huge waste of limited funds. What is the harm in schematically envisioning the best possible scenario, and then setting strategic and reachable goals to get there? Why take potential ideas off the table, if they could lead to fantastic solutions? I would reference the RiverFirst competition, which put forth a bold vision and is now slowing chipping away at smaller projects to get there.

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EOst
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby EOst » March 7th, 2016, 8:34 pm

If a short pedestrian bridge across LRT tracks costs 10+ million, a six lane automobile tunnel with ramps under Lake would have to be at least, what, 100 million? I can think of at least a couple hundred better ways to spend 100 million, none of which would require closing a major highway for months or years.

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Nick
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby Nick » March 7th, 2016, 8:35 pm

Will it cost $10 million for you to think of them?

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EOst
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby EOst » March 7th, 2016, 8:37 pm

Nick wrote:Will it cost $10 million for you to think of them?
I think it could use some "detailed study."

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 7th, 2016, 8:38 pm

EOst wrote:If a short pedestrian bridge across LRT tracks costs 10+ million, a six lane automobile tunnel with ramps under Lake would have to be at least, what, 100 million? I can think of at least a couple hundred better ways to spend 100 million, none of which would require closing a major highway for months or years.
You know like...
future Midtown Light Rail

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby FISHMANPET » March 7th, 2016, 9:05 pm

This study cost about $70k. Not a ton of money, but not chump change. If you want to do a study to get you some kind of reasonable plan for burying Hiawatha here, I don't think it's crazy to think you'd spend that much to study it. The total cost of all the Tier I improvements is $432k. So another study for something that wouldn't even happen for decades and would be an enormous waste of money for very little benefit, or 1/6th of the Tier I improvements. I know which I would choose.

minneboom
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby minneboom » March 7th, 2016, 10:27 pm

You know like...
future Midtown Light Rail
[/quote]

Which is not even being considered in this analysis, even though it will certainly have some effect on this area. I am not arguing against detailed studies or improvements, just proposing that we also step back and look at the bigger picture also. How will this area look when the Midtown Corridor BRT/Light Rail is developed? How could the Midtown Farmers market fit into this intersection better? How can we improve connections to the LRT trail/Midtown Greenway? How could the bridge be transformed 10-20 years from now? Some simple renderings and plans that try to coalesce and bring together the different ideas into a broader vision would be great. A generational vision, that the different neighborhood groups, Corcoran, Longfellow, Phillips, ect can point to as their ultimate goal to transform this area. This is exactly how the Riverfirst is being used, and it is already starting to produce results.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby mister.shoes » March 7th, 2016, 11:37 pm

I agree that the bridge is incredibly ugly and overwhelming to the entire area, but what if the dead zone underneath were spruced up a bit and lightened? Some of those proposed solutions call for radical changes to Lake and the ramps to/fro and create usable pedestrian and bike connections. That could make for more humane spaces. Then, the dark blue tile on the abutments could be lightened up and the bridge itself could be painted a brighter color. Add some furniture, remove the SPUI, and that entire environment could end up slightly less depressing.
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mister.shoes
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby mister.shoes » March 7th, 2016, 11:42 pm

P.S. I know you're thinking big and that's great. I'm not trying to poo-poo, just trying to fix what we're stuck with for a while.
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby FISHMANPET » March 8th, 2016, 12:07 am

I thought about it some more and I changed my mind, I agree with minneboom that there needs to be some larger visioning of this area. This study only had $70k, and I think they directed the resources to what the neighborhood wanted the most, which was to look at the intersection specifically. It didn't look at anything outside the intersection, except Lake St to the west up to the stop light at 22nd.

There's a separate project coming in a year or two to connect the Hiawatha trail between 32nd and 28th, but the implications of that weren't really looked at in this study, though it does present an opportunity to throw more money and engineering at this location. Part of the L&H Station project involves building a public plaza area for the Farmers Market that will interact with the light rail station better. The Midtown Corridor Alternatives Analysis includes a track alignment plan, though the station area for the terminus is now occupied by the Lake St Station apartments. So it doesn't sound like anything is being missed, per se, but the whole of these projects is greater than the sum of their parts, and there should be something to bring them all together.

Are there any other projects going on here? I feel like I remember seeing somewhere that there's something to try and improve the Lake and Minnehaha intersection?

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby PhilmerPhil » March 8th, 2016, 12:15 am

Minnehaha south of Lake is being fully reconstructed this year. I forget if the plans call for widening the extremely narrow sidewalks on the 3000 block.

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby froggie » March 8th, 2016, 7:51 am

It is not a bad idea to think bigger about this intersection,
...nor is it a bad idea to think REALISTICALLY about this intersection. A tunnel is not realistic.
There's a separate project coming in a year or two to connect the Hiawatha trail between 32nd and 28th, but the implications of that weren't really looked at in this study,
I disagree. There's quite a bit of talk in this intersection study about the implications of the existing configuration and possible alternatives on north-south bicycle travel.

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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby Qhaberl » March 8th, 2016, 7:57 am

I agree, it is important to think realistically about this intersection.

minneboom
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Re: Hi-Lake and Minnehaha Mall Area (Target, Cub, etc.)

Postby minneboom » March 12th, 2016, 3:55 pm

mister.shoes wrote:I agree that the bridge is incredibly ugly and overwhelming to the entire area, but what if the dead zone underneath were spruced up a bit and lightened?
I think looking into some aesthetic improvements while keeping the main structure of the bridge intact is a great idea. Could the lighting and railing across the bridge be improved? Could the large concrete wall along the ramps be simplified and turned into vertical growing surface for flowering plants? Can more trees be planted along the entrance and exit ramps? Could bike lanes be added across the bridge with some sort of look out point? Could the strangely ornamented columns be replaced with a more interesting and defining vertical element (like the Guthrie Theater)?


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