Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

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mattaudio
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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby mattaudio » April 6th, 2016, 9:46 am

Remind me again why my sleepy little Northrop neighborhood can have a 3 story proposal for 50 apartments above Walgreens (and another storefront) above underground parking... But 27th and Hennepin cannot. It seems to boil down to one being a Semper project and one not.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 6th, 2016, 10:48 am

Has that project been officially announced anywhere yet? I wonder how likely it is to happen.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby FISHMANPET » April 6th, 2016, 11:08 am

Isn't the deal that the Roat Osha owners don't want to be any more ambitious here?

There's so much shade thrown at "developers" (not here, but in general) and here we've got a case where it's beloved local business owners that are screwing their own community.

The discourse around this development is 10 times worse than the actual building being proposed.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby jw138 » April 6th, 2016, 11:11 am

Maybe folks should be dining at Roat Osha and paying with credit cards and passing statements on how bad the proposal is for the neighborhood?

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 6th, 2016, 11:12 am

Nah. My brother invited me to join 6 of his friends there a couple weeks ago. I successfully steered them away in protest. 8-)

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby David Greene » April 6th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Roat Osha is the worst. We just stopped going there after they continued to screw up our orders.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby versitalex » April 13th, 2016, 3:43 pm


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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby uptown067 » April 13th, 2016, 7:16 pm

It baffles me how this gets approved, yet the Trader Joes proposal on Lyndale a few years back (which was of similar scale and quality) got denied for not being dense enough (yes, I'm still bitter about that).

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby lordmoke » April 13th, 2016, 8:02 pm

uptown067 wrote:It baffles me how this gets approved, yet the Trader Joes proposal on Lyndale a few years back (which was of similar scale and quality) got denied for not being dense enough (yes, I'm still bitter about that).
Technicalities. The Trader Joe's needed variances, and this doesn't. There's legally no way for the city to stop the Walgreen's without opening themselves up to a lawsuit. They were just able to deny the variances and kill the TJ's project.


Also excuse my language, but fuck that Trader Joe's proposal. And this one.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 13th, 2016, 10:23 pm

We didn't like the lack of density, but to my knowledge, the reason it didn't move forward is because council member at that time was worried about there not being enough parking.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby seanrichardryan » April 13th, 2016, 11:07 pm

Well, that's not what happened.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby thatchio » April 13th, 2016, 11:10 pm

TJ's was denied due to the rezoning request being denied, which is a legislative decision. And it was a terrible project in so many ways, as said from people who tend to support dense projects and those who tend to worry a lot about the impacts of dense projects.

Denying a site plan approval because the project isn't dense enough relative to the planning vision is unlikely to stand up in court.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby lordmoke » April 13th, 2016, 11:16 pm

Digging through our old threads it was apparently actually killed on a C1 to C2 rezoning request that would have allowed for the sale of alcohol. I didn't dig around enough to find her rationale, but yeah, that seems like a Tuthill-ian reason.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby twincitizen » April 14th, 2016, 7:48 am

Best decision she ever made, for the entirely wrong justification. The positive results of that decision are indisputable - Heyday opened in that space and all of the other small businesses remain open to this day. Also, Minneapolis is still getting a Trader Joes, in a much more important location that arguably was a catalyst for the entire project at Washington & Chicago. And due to state liquor laws, any single owner or corporation can only run one liquor store per municipality. Trader Joe's doesn't often open stores without liquor, so we're very unlikely to ever see a second one. But wait there's more - it's now looking like Aldi will open in the neighborhood just a block from where Trader Joe's was proposed.

Like I said, best decision Tuthill ever made, even if her reasoning was terrible ("I don't do rezonings").

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby amiller92 » April 14th, 2016, 9:21 am

twincitizen wrote:But wait there's more - it's now looking like Aldi will open in the neighborhood just a block from where Trader Joe's was proposed.
And arguable on a better spot, in that it doesn't require demolishing any old commercial buildings.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby mattaudio » April 14th, 2016, 12:07 pm

Tuthill wrote:I don't do rezonings.
In one direction. https://streets.mn/2016/02/15/a-history-of-downzoning/

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby sdho » April 14th, 2016, 8:59 pm

twincitizen wrote:A Pedestrian Overlay would only stop the drive-thru, no? The drive-thru isn't really the problem. It's the low FAR and lack of a residential component. The drive-thru, as designed, is actually pretty context-sensitive and not terrible. It's actually really similar to the drive-thru at Bank of America (just south of this site in the Giordano's building).

I understand that without the drive-thru, Walgreens probably wouldn't be looking to move at all. They'd probably just stay where they are or find another site nearby where they can build a drive-thru. We need FAR minimums way more than we need to prohibit drive-thru windows. Prohibit fast-food drive-thrus? Absolutely. But single-lane, context-sensitive pharmacy pickup windows or drive-up ATMs are just fine in a lot of cases. Surely I don't need to mention the CVS at Nicollet & Franklin again...it got quite the love-fest last night.
I'm very late to the party here, but genuine question: why does this Walgreen generate so much virulent opposition when the building it's replacing is even worse -- and not some historic artifact of 80s/90s development, but only seven years old? The existing Roat Osha building has ~0.3 FAR, doesn't have an entrance on or even near the street, and has insulting signs facing the bus stop informing unruly walkers that the cash is removed every night.

The proposed Walgreens is not the highest/best use for this area -- but it's a notable improvement over what was built just seven years ago. So why is it considered so terrible?

And, a question that I wonder in Richfield as well as Minneapolis: if we hate drive-thrus so, so much, why do we we allow them? (At all. Period.)

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby mplsjaromir » April 14th, 2016, 9:08 pm

You know the answer to both questions.

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby amiller92 » April 15th, 2016, 10:42 am

sdho wrote:The proposed Walgreens is not the highest/best use for this area -- but it's a notable improvement over what was built just seven years ago. So why is it considered so terrible?
Because it's locking in a crappy use for who knows how long?

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Re: Walgreens - (2650 Hennepin - Roat Osha/FirstTech)

Postby sdho » April 15th, 2016, 3:02 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:You know the answer to both questions.
I do? There are any number of things that come to mind, but none seems to explain such universal opposition: we don't like drive-thrus; our standards have changed a lot in the last seven years; we're willing to be vastly more forgiving toward an independent restaurant versus a national chain store; or we've simply lost sight of the fact that this development is already above average for the corridor.
amiller92 wrote:
sdho wrote:
twincitizen wrote:The proposed Walgreens is not the highest/best use for this area -- but it's a notable improvement over what was built just seven years ago. So why is it considered so terrible?
Because it's locking in a crappy use for who knows how long?
About seven years, apparently... It'll probably be there longer than Roat Osha, but this project itself demonstrates that things can turn over quickly when there is demand.


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