Nicollet Ave / Eat Street - Whittier, Stevens, Loring Park

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
RailBaronYarr
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Re: Eat Street

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 30th, 2014, 1:21 pm

Just for the sake of argument, I don't think Blaisdell/LaSalle, 1st, or Nicollet function as a huge through-route to downtown from Whittier. Respectively, they carried 6,600, 3,000, and 5,600 vehicles a day in 2012 north of I-94. I realize that since Blaisdell/LaSalle and 1st are one-ways, that's the equivalent of double that for a 2-way street since most are peak hour commuters. But Nicollet Ave traffic counts drop from 10k south of 94 to 3k just north of it (unless I'm reading the map wrong), Add in the fact that 35W will likely have new ramps (SB to Lake, NB from 28th) to handle more of the through traffic (I don't know what share this represents, TBH). I agree that the area just west of 35W on Lake is a mess, but I'm not sure how any area-wide design will truly fix this problem without a substantial number of people in the area switching modes (which, I guess is the point of all the transit improvements, right?). I'm indifferent to if 1st/Blaisdell make more sense as one or 2-ways, but it's possible for a one way with parking on both sides and 2x10.5' lanes can be quite calmed and reasonable for residents while still handling traffic volumes.

Regarding Eat Street as having the foot traffic to support a ped-only zone: I don't know the answer to this question. Today? Perhaps not. In 10-30 years? Certainly seems like there's potential given a what's going on right now, the development-inducing streetcar (that happens to run through downtown with loads of new residential units going in), enhanced transit access via Orange Line and MG SC, etc.

Re street grid connectivity: I do agree with your sentiment. But stepping back a bit, realize that a major reason this predicament of a thru-traffic pinch point exists is because 94 is in the way. A single ped/bike/transit only street doesn't maim the grid (ie: downtown) nearly as much as the lack of N-S connections does. Were Stevens, 2nd, Clinton, and possible Pillsbury all connected across 94, this wouldn't be an issue at all.

Re great commercial streets: not arguing that there aren't plenty of great places in the US and beyond with cars. But most mid-sized towns/cities I've been to in Europe (with similar ooverall population densities as Whittier today) have their best commercial zones as ped/bike only (sometimes transit, sometimes vehicles allowed for delivery or special access only). I'm not saying it's the right route, just floating the idea and hoping that, as twincitizen says, staff don't go into this assuming one end-result but rather study all ends of the spectrum to see what is best for residents/development/traffic.

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woofner
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Re: Eat Street

Postby woofner » January 30th, 2014, 1:58 pm

As much as some neighborhood residents complain about parking, there objectively is enough parking here. CPED did a study when they relaxed the requirements in the PO and found that there is more than required by code. The issue is who controls it. I'd think that, on top of the fact that there are so many splintered private lots, there would be enough in the lots of institutions like the Whittier Clinic or the City of Lakes school to handle evening demand. Maybe it just would take an organization with a focus on area businesses to organize it... like some sort of association of businesses... too bad there's nothing like that here....

Speaking of nothing like that here, while eventually a pedestrianization of some or all of Eat Street would probably work, there's no chance in hell the businesses would support it. If you care, focus your efforts on the Kmart site, and maybe if that is successful somehow despite the lack of a thousand screaming roaring cars going past it every hour, then it might be politically possible to pedestrianize some other blocks.
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Wedgeguy
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Re: Eat Street

Postby Wedgeguy » January 30th, 2014, 3:02 pm

As we have said,1st Ave is not a major traffic thorough fare. South of 28th it may go back to a one way. But those blocks in between 28th and Franklin have basically made that stretch of street not so much a fast way into downtown. Also I've never found 1st Ave south of 28th to have that much traffic on it to start with. Most will use the freeway, Lyndale, or Park to get into town.

Even with Nicollet opening, I would hope that there will not be that much traffic coming up that street with it that close to the freeway. It will all depend on the traffic design that they decide to use along the street. If they were to continue with the 3 lane, one each direction plus turn lane then I see no real adverse conditions. Parking along the street will help to keep pedestrians safe and some bump outs would be a good traffic calmer also.
Last edited by Wedgeguy on January 30th, 2014, 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

twincitizen
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Re: Eat Street

Postby twincitizen » January 30th, 2014, 3:18 pm

Nicollet (Eat Street) today carries more traffic than either Blaisdell or 1st (because it's a two-way, duh).

Traffic counts are embarassingly low on 1st Ave to have any portion of it a one-way. If we could move the NB bike facility to either Nicollet or Blaisdell, 1st Ave S could easily be returned to regular 'ol neighborhood street status.

Blaisdell peaks under 8,000 ADT and that number is highest in the 26th to 31st section. If Blaisdell were converted to a two-way and Nicollet re-opened, a portion of today's SB traffic would move to Nicollet and the rest would probably stay on Blaisdell. Either way, traffic counts are low enough today to support a single traffic lane in each direction. The need for two traffic lanes is generally stated to begin at 10,000 ADT.

This is getting away from "Eat Street", but Blaisdell south of 31st Street has zero justification for being a two-lane, one-way street. Traffic counts on 1st Ave, south of 31st, are even lower, but it remains a single-lane, one-way street on that segment to allow for the buffered bike lane.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Eat Street

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 30th, 2014, 3:48 pm

Just for reference, traffic counts: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/traffic/data ... apolis.pdf Certainly seem to support the notion that more people use Blaisdell/LaSalle to get out of downtown than people use 1st to get in (and I'm sure the 2-way stretch south of Franklin has something to do with it).

And yes, this is straying from Eat Street specific topics I guess. Just didn't know where to have a fun brainstorming session on challenges to pedestrianization 1) at all, 2) the whole enchilada. I think woofner is right that focusing efforts on the Kmart site is a much better plan, particularly if traffic counts don't slow down transit operations much/at all. Maybe the ped area could start at 29th.

twincitizen
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Re: Eat Street

Postby twincitizen » May 1st, 2014, 10:22 am

More details on the Wedge Co-op outpost, now called "Wedge Community Table" at Nicollet & 24th: http://www.southwestjournal.com/news/ne ... t-location

They hope to open this fall.

John
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Re: Eat Street

Postby John » May 1st, 2014, 7:32 pm

This will be a great addition to this neighborhood. Eat Street appears to be evolving into a version of what the retail districts of Lynn-Lake and Uptown used to be "in the old days".

Aville_37
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Re: Eat Street

Postby Aville_37 » May 10th, 2014, 8:04 pm

John wrote:This will be a great addition to this neighborhood. Eat Street appears to be evolving into a version of what the retail districts of Lynn-Lake and Uptown used to be "in the old days".
Agree - which is nice for the neighborhood. Now I am just waiting for the reconstruction of the Nicollet Avenue Bridge and new, higher density developments further north on those surface parking lots, etc. I still feel a Trader Joes would work well on Nicollet. Obviously the Wedge saw a grocer was needed in the area as well.

Would be cool if the Loring Theater could be used also for art films, etc.

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Re: Eat Street

Postby Minneapolisite » May 12th, 2014, 6:44 pm

My Huong Kitchen opened in the old Lu's spot on the south side of Shuang Hur Market doing bahn mis and other Vietnamese dishes including crepes: excellent stuff.

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Re: Developing Nicollet Avenue/Stevens Square

Postby Aville_37 » June 10th, 2014, 8:51 pm

twincitizen wrote:It's actually on the north side of 94 (Loring Park n'hood technically), but since it was discussed in this thread: The Nicollet Diner might finally open at the end of June.

http://www.journalmpls.com/news-feed/lo ... nd-of-june
Great news! I hope this can help turn that stretch of Nicollet around. I love Loring Park but it's weird how it gets a little sketchy from Grant to Franklin. I think some of those older 1 story buildings need to be torn down and some 2-3 story mixed use developments put in. Market BBQ is an institution - but could see them moving into a new space, etc. A rebuilt bridge over 94 would also help.

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TommyT
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Re: Developing Nicollet Avenue/Stevens Square

Postby TommyT » June 10th, 2014, 9:17 pm

I think that if LPM does well Magellan would be foolish not to try and continue densifying Loring Park by making deals with local businesses and snatching up some of that area. Would be great to see a few more glassy Magellan high-rises sprout up out of the park like they did with lakeshore east in Chicago.

lordmoke
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Re: Developing Nicollet Avenue/Stevens Square

Postby lordmoke » June 11th, 2014, 8:58 am

^ There's always that full block face on Nicollet that went up for sale on Craigslist.

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Re: Eat Street

Postby Minneapolisite » July 9th, 2014, 6:13 pm

Just south of Spyhouse is The Copper Hen Cakery & Kitchen which opened a little while ago next to the newer gift shop that opened in the same building.

I was right about Buddha: that place was far from a fit in the neighborhood. . What with 5x the price of similar dishes already offered at existing restaurants, a "club " atmosphere, and having to hire a cop parked out front on weekend nights to prevent more stabbings/altercations from happening I'm not the least bit surprised. Neighboring businesses surely weren't happy with the kind of crowd they were attracting to warrant a police presence and make the whole area look unsafe. Good riddance.

twincitizen
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Re: Eat Street

Postby twincitizen » July 16th, 2014, 11:09 am


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TommyT
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Re: Eat Street

Postby TommyT » September 5th, 2014, 9:05 am

Sounds to me like a couple guys with little experience who had a dream to open a restaurant. I'd like to see it succeed because I feel like you could always use another greasy spoon establishment in this city. Will see how it goes!

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Re: Eat Street

Postby Silophant » September 6th, 2014, 8:24 pm

I went in and checked it out earlier this evening, had a delicious burger and shake. Took a little longer than I would have liked, about 30 minutes, but at the same time, I've sometimes had to wait that long at Annie's, so I'm certainly willing to cut them some slack on their first real day. I asked my waiter, and he said they should be moving to 24-hour service in a couple weeks, waiting only on the city to approve that permit.

EOst
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Re: Eat Street

Postby EOst » September 6th, 2014, 9:36 pm

The open-faced sandwiches are delicious, too. Heard they have a different gravy for each meat.

Aville_37
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Re: Eat Street

Postby Aville_37 » September 7th, 2014, 10:21 pm

Happy/excited they are finally open and wishing them the best. Hopefully a 24/hour place will help deter some of the sketchy looking people that seem to be hanging out in this area of Nicollet lately. I have high hopes that with the streetcar line - this area and the rest of Nicollet gets cleaned up/built up a bit more. From Grant to a little south of Franklin...

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Re: Eat Street

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 25th, 2014, 9:01 am

Black Sheep Pizza to open in old Azia space per Whittier Alliance's FB.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Eat Street

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 25th, 2014, 9:05 am

PhilmerPhil wrote:Black Sheep Pizza to open in old Azia space per Whittier Alliance's FB.
That would be an AWESOME addition to this corner!


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