Daymark Uptown (Sons of Norway site) - 3014 Holmes Ave S

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David Greene
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby David Greene » September 14th, 2017, 10:23 am

Push it!!

I may try to stop by on the way home.

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Anondson
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Anondson » September 14th, 2017, 9:05 pm


RailBaronYarr
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby RailBaronYarr » September 15th, 2017, 7:27 am

A few other relevant tweets/threads...
https://twitter.com/WedgeLIVE/status/908457971918737408
https://twitter.com/WedgeLIVE/status/908462151681142784
https://twitter.com/WedgeLIVE/status/908465053002797056

So to recap what those pictures don't necessarily show (and, I showed up very late so may have a bit of this wrong):

- Along Lake would be two separate structures. The one along Humboldt would likely have a restaurant (but they're not 100% certain on this yet), with residential above it and moving south along Humboldt. The larger structure along Lake would have SoN offices on the ground floor and maybe second level, with 5-6 stories of housing above it (I thought I hears them say 7 stories total?). Basically no other office space.
- Along Holmes would be one structure with 3 different massings, scaling down a bit toward the southern end of the block. It's R4 down there which allows 4 stories or 56 ft, they're looking at 4-5 stories on the southern portion. R4 obviously needs some major variances on FAR and lot size per unit to get at the densities shown.
- Developer stressed that the northern half of the block is zoned C3A, which allows everything they're proposing and more, but they wanted to scale back the massing on the ground to get more open space/public-private amenities and somewhat trade that for a bit more density on the southern portion of the site.

Depending on your view on the world, this meeting was either: 1) a really good showing of a developer working with people who live almost exclusively within a couple hundred feet of the site to mitigate impacts, or 2) a shady-ish backroom meeting where a select group of wealthy homeowners get to influence housing outside the typical political process in exchange for a bit of support (or lack of fight). The developer is obviously free to talk to whoever they want and design the project however they see fit to go forward to our complicated approvals process. It's just odd that concerned neighbors and the city spent so much effort on a small area plan that designates spots like this for growth, small as they may be (it's really weird that this block has any R4 instead of entirely C3A!!), only to have people come out with concerns about what you can build even under that plan.

Anyway, hundreds of housing units are good. The concepts for the open space seem nice. Bit disappointed in the overall vision, so Ackerberg better deliver on the CS lot.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby lordmoke » September 28th, 2017, 3:31 pm

Plans from CoW: http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 205252.pdf

Seems generally good at first glance?

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Nathan
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Nathan » September 28th, 2017, 4:33 pm

Hmm.... it looks very... sturdy.
There are a lot of things I really like though. The detail on the eastern part of the lake street front is really nice and the southern portion has some really great design cues.

That turret though... I think it's mostly the color/ material that turns me off. Everything else is so demure and that is garish. I'd like to see it either in a natural stone color or like a true hue... make it a little more fun and uptown...

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby uptown067 » September 28th, 2017, 5:23 pm

I wouldn't say i love it but definitely don't hate it. Its more original than all of the other recent 6 story buildings that have gone up in uptown. I do wish it felt more cohesive... it looks like its mixing architectural styles in an odd/random way. The actual materials used on this one will have a big impact, especially for the turret (that's not the proper term but i don't know what else to call it...).

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby seanrichardryan » September 28th, 2017, 7:03 pm

My fav rendering Image
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Nathan
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Nathan » September 28th, 2017, 7:39 pm

uptown067 wrote:
September 28th, 2017, 5:23 pm
(that's not the proper term but i don't know what else to call it...).
Dryer bin?

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Palmetto » September 28th, 2017, 8:09 pm

I can't lie, I really like it. The materials look solid and I think the round building is a nice touch.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby alexschief » September 28th, 2017, 9:01 pm

Love the scale. Love 326 units. Not a huge fan of 327 parking stalls, but that does come to less than 1/unit because some portion of those spots are intended for SoN employees.

The turret though, was this designed by Michael Graves' ghost? Looks like they were inspired by the Kjeungskjær Lighthouse. I'd have preferred they took inspiration from a stave church. The way they have a different material for each facade is bold, my gut tells me it won't look good, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

Hoping this design gets refined a bit.

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Anondson
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Anondson » September 28th, 2017, 9:53 pm

This will be quite fine.

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jtoemke
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby jtoemke » September 29th, 2017, 6:27 am

alexschief wrote:
September 28th, 2017, 9:01 pm
The turret though, was this designed by Michael Graves' ghost? Looks like they were inspired by the Kjeungskjær Lighthouse.
Haha my exact first thought. Low and behold, the have it as a precedent image. Massing is solid. Good density. Color is maybe not my favorite. Other than that, throw it up.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby cnelson » September 29th, 2017, 9:51 am

alexschief wrote:
September 28th, 2017, 9:01 pm
Love the scale. Love 326 units. Not a huge fan of 327 parking stalls, but that does come to less than 1/unit because some portion of those spots are intended for SoN employees.
At the open house they said it was 327 underground stalls for residents and then there was also ground level structured parking (under the pool deck) for the retail space and apartment guests with about half of that being reserved for the Sons of Norway during business hours.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby BigIdeasGuy » September 29th, 2017, 11:11 am

BigIdeasGuy wrote:
August 18th, 2017, 7:12 pm
I'm fully expecting acceptably mediocre. So pretty much the standard for a prime developable parcel in Minneapolis.
I was pretty close, it's definitely a step or two above mediocre. I like that they didn't just copy paste every other 6 story apartment building in Uptown with the turret and use of dormers and how the black ties the three buildings together while they are all still distinct. I really like the town homes and walkups along Holmes and Humboldt as well. And the single curb cut is great.

The Lake Street frontage is going to be dependent on how willing the Son's of Norway are going to be in engaging, activating, and providing activity at street level (and we all know how exciting life insurance is). It's unfortunate that Ryan didn't buy out the condo building because I feel that could have really improved the project as well. The pocket park could be really cool if they are able to draw and welcome people walking down Lake Street into the space without a bunch of programing.

I guess at the end of the day my biggest criticism of the project that instead of looking at Uptown and figuring out what the neighborhood needs and wants are to keep growing and evolving, like more nightlife, cafes, etc. Instead Ryan took what I feel is the easy way out and decided to build a bunch of housing, which is clearly needed, and some office space.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby RailBaronYarr » September 29th, 2017, 11:34 am

Funny, I'm not under the impression that what Uptown is lacking is a nightlife/cafe scene (though more of that is certainly welcome), but other uses like more office space. In a vacuum, this project is very nice - better than average design, some public-ish amenities, etc etc. But considering it's one of the last true easily redeveloped lots within the core of Uptown, I'm a little disappointed. The Small Area Plan is soooo conservative anywhere outside the Activity Center. Without drastic change at the Comp Plan level there won't be a way to get more than 3-4 stories outside the core (to be clear, allowing lots of 3-4 story residential like townhomes or smaller apartments/condos, maybe even small retail, would be great). If Uptown has any aspirations of becoming more than a big residential business node/regional shopping node, we need more than this. And if we're ever gonna build Midtown Rail and aBRT down Hennepin, we need to the land uses that justify it.

But, this is nice looking and it'll be great to have 400+ more people in the neighborhood.

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby GILBball » September 29th, 2017, 12:16 pm

I like it quite a bit, and with a few changes I'd even be prepared to like it a lot.

I'd love to see maybe just one or two more floors on the Lake St building, just to give it a little more prominence compared to the buildings around it.

Also, I like the lighthouse looking building, but would love to see it a different color (we've had plenty of burnt orange things go up the last few years). I love any of the colors in this photo of Trondheim.
credit-knuta-age-dahl-visitnorway.com-trondheim-historic-buildings-water.jpg
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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Blaisdell Greenway » September 29th, 2017, 1:30 pm

I could go either way on this... except for the mansard roofs. Whatsup with that?

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby BigIdeasGuy » September 29th, 2017, 8:49 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:
September 29th, 2017, 11:34 am
Funny, I'm not under the impression that what Uptown is lacking is a nightlife/cafe scene (though more of that is certainly welcome), but other uses like more office space. In a vacuum, this project is very nice - better than average design, some public-ish amenities, etc etc. But considering it's one of the last true easily redeveloped lots within the core of Uptown, I'm a little disappointed. The Small Area Plan is soooo conservative anywhere outside the Activity Center. Without drastic change at the Comp Plan level there won't be a way to get more than 3-4 stories outside the core (to be clear, allowing lots of 3-4 story residential like townhomes or smaller apartments/condos, maybe even small retail, would be great). If Uptown has any aspirations of becoming more than a big residential business node/regional shopping node, we need more than this. And if we're ever gonna build Midtown Rail and aBRT down Hennepin, we need to the land uses that justify it.

But, this is nice looking and it'll be great to have 400+ more people in the neighborhood.
To me Uptown really isn't an office type of place, for better or worse, it's much more happy hour to late night and weekends area. And I think that's okay.

As you said this is one of the last true easily re-developable parcels in Uptown and we're getting 375 units of housing, which is awesome, some office space, and a pocket park hidden from the street. To me that is disappointing, I always thought a concept like the Power and Light District in Kansas City opening on to Lake would have been amazing. This parcel had the ability to be transformative and really help connect the two centers of Uptown, Bde Maka Ska and Hennepin. Instead of that, something that really activates the street and makes people want to walk from end to end, we got a street level office space for a life insurance company. That's great if it's a infill project but this proposal shouldn't be an infill project.

This is a recurring thing to me in Minneapolis. The Ritz Block, the single most developable block in Downtown and it's 2 phases of 30 story apartment building. That could have and should have been so much more, and to be fair I love the design of the tower but the awful parking podium takes a lot of that away. The Doran General Mills site in NE you have a full block to do whatever you want with and it's a brown 20 story apartment building a bunch of town homes. Again there is a lot to like but it could have been so much more. The 1/2 block behind Thrivents HQ, what Montage ended up as, etc. Time after time what gets built on these prime parcels is what should be infill projects.

I know it's easy to spend other peoples money and when you're the one taking on risk it's complete different but MPLS should be expecting more from developers when it comes to these prime parcels.

But hey, it meets the zoning code, eliminates a parking lot, and adds housing so good enough right?

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby David Greene » September 29th, 2017, 9:24 pm

BigIdeasGuy wrote:
September 29th, 2017, 8:49 pm
To me Uptown really isn't an office type of place, for better or worse, it's much more happy hour to late night and weekends area. And I think that's okay.
Well, some of us actually live here... :)


Kidding, kidding. I know what you meant. But still, this corridor could use some family things too.

Connecting Bde Maka Ska and Hennepin is a wonderful idea but I wonder how realistic it is given the numerous older apartment buildings, duplexes, etc. on Lake. It seems like a lot would have to be torn down to make the kind of entertainment corridor I think you're envisioning.

I'm not sure if it's any more practical but another way to tie the two together would be to resurrect the Como-Harriet line from the Greenway to France(-ish). The right-of-way mostly still exists and is in public hands. Not sure we could legally use all of it though due to safety considerations (modern streetcar through an alley?!?).

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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Postby Tiller » September 29th, 2017, 9:51 pm

David Greene wrote:
September 29th, 2017, 9:24 pm
Not sure we could legally use all of it though due to safety considerations (modern streetcar through an alley?!?).
Let's do it. ;)
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