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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: January 17th, 2018, 9:38 pm
by Qhaberl
Is the total units 300+. Or is that the building near the NW part of the devolopment?


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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 8:38 pm
by Silophant
This passed unanimously at the CPC tonight. It'll be appealed, obviously.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 4th, 2018, 11:44 am
by Qhaberl
I posted this question over on skyscraper city, but figured I would post it here as well.

Does anyone know if this is a planned unit development? Are they wanting to construct the 300+ apartment units in stages or all at once?


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Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 10th, 2018, 9:28 am
by John21

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 10th, 2018, 12:24 pm
by Mikey
"Trump-sized Tower"

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 10th, 2018, 1:27 pm
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
It was probably a bit more like an 8 inch snowstorm, but there was a base layer of slush that made travel very difficult. And I'm not sure if there were fully 40 people there. I didn't count but there were only a few empty seats. There were no less than 30 people there from the neighborhood. And no, this isn't a "Trump sized tower", though it would be satisfying to write that.

My instinct says that if 30 people turned out on a night like that there are maybe 100 who strongly oppose the project. I don't know, I'm a newcomer to this process and still learning how it works. Maybe it's only those 30 people, but they really, really hate it.

There was some argument for a 10 foot setback from one of the commissioners. The Ryan people got a little huffy about having to redesign it again. Presumably that's not happening.

I think this is what it looks like in 2018 when you organize your neighbors and "run the table" in the planning process. They got a little less height on the south side. The mansard roofs were removed, replaced by "corner bumps", they got a few tweaks to parking and some different materials. The units were reduced from 323 to 319.

Ryan companies probably feel like they bent (or got bent) over backwards to satisfy the neighborhood. The people in the neighborhood feel like they got lip service, though by recent standards they did quite well. There is probably a snarky Wedge Live video which portrays them as senile provincial buffoons.

I'm still trying to get my mind around why this process is always so acrimonious.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 10th, 2018, 1:37 pm
by VacantLuxuries
There is probably a snarky Wedge Live video which portrays them as senile provincial buffoons.
Considering Wedge Live just takes public record footage of meetings, he's not the one making them look like buffoons. He's just highlighting it.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 10th, 2018, 1:39 pm
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
VacantLuxuries wrote:
February 10th, 2018, 1:37 pm
There is probably a snarky Wedge Live video which portrays them as senile provincial buffoons.
Considering Wedge Live just takes public record footage of meetings, he's not the one making them look like buffoons. He's just highlighting it.
People often look pretty foolish as they come to terms with their own powerlessness.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 11th, 2018, 9:21 am
by RailBaronYarr
If the takeaway from land use and development in the USA ca. 2018 is that neighbors are now powerless... man I dunno. Context/framing is everything: R6 on a site like this in a city like this is actually a fairly ridiculous zoning as it only allows 6 stories/84' by-right. The same block has R2B on it, and the rest of the neighborhood follows that pattern. The codes, processes, city goals/policies that staff/planning commission/city council must abide by all favor 100 years of neighbors' preferences regarding aesthetics, on-street parking, and 'crowding'. Which, fine, but let's not act like some parking reform and project-by-project variances and CUPs mean neighbors are powerless.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 11th, 2018, 9:32 am
by thatchio
All these projects convince me more that using a much more rigid zoning code on height and FAR would reduce fights for both the neighbors and developers. But the only way that would work is if the zoning districts were both redefined and reapplied so that the specific parcel had the zoning necessary to accomplish the comp plan or applicable small area plan. Why should 40 people have to show up to the Planning Commission to argue about scale? If they had won in getting it substantially reduced in scale, the developer would have wasted a lot of time and money...granted that is part of the risk of being in that business. Zoning reform is needed.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 11th, 2018, 1:53 pm
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
Interesting points in the previous 2 posts. The neighbors do have some power, as demonstrated by the changes to this project; not huge, but significant. It's just shocking for them when they find out it's a lot less than they thought.

I keep reminding myself that the system we have has grown up over the last 150 years of real estate development in Minneapolis, under the supervision of elected officials accountable to voters. It must be pretty close to what we want collectively as a city.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 11th, 2018, 11:45 pm
by Silophant
Well, pretty close to what the residents with the time and money to excercise political power want, at least.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 8:34 am
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
Silophant wrote:
February 11th, 2018, 11:45 pm
Well, pretty close to what the residents with the time and money to excercise political power want, at least.
Perhaps you're referring to the developer, Ryan Companies? They have people working to move this project forward all day everyday.

The unpaid part timers who showed up on that snowy night came away empty handed, though they had won a few concessions earlier.

It's pretty obvious who's going to win here.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 8:55 am
by LakeCharles
Bob Stinson's Ghost wrote:
February 11th, 2018, 1:53 pm
I keep reminding myself that the system we have has grown up over the last 150 years of real estate development in Minneapolis, under the supervision of elected officials accountable to voters. It must be pretty close to what we want collectively as a city.
You can use this logic to avoid changing the status quo for anything.

Substitute in gay marriage, or race relations, or anything you like, and you can come to conclusion that we're here now, we must want to be here, so let's not change anything.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 10:37 am
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
The people from the neighborhood come into the input phase with some pretty unrealistic expectations of how much influence they have. It might be best to just do away with it. I think we're about to see with Rex26 how easily neighborhood input can be swept aside.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 11:33 am
by mplsjaromir
The neighborhood's input should have limited sway over someone else's property rights.

If the neighborhood groups demand the end of private property, that would be intriguing.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 12:51 pm
by seanrichardryan

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 1:10 pm
by minntransplant
mplsjaromir wrote:
February 12th, 2018, 11:33 am
The neighborhood's input should have limited sway over someone else's property rights.

If the neighborhood groups demand the end of private property, that would be intriguing.
Based on my following of the various Nextdoor threads, it is difficult to hone in one what the opposition is most concerned about. Many seem reasonably upset that they spent a lot of time crafting a small area plan that says only R4 is allowed, and that the city is "tossing that aside" so an out-of-state developer can "make a bunch of money". But I have a strong suspicion that even a proposal that fit neatly into R4 zoning would be vehemently opposed for many of the same reasons they've also been citing (too many units, not enough parking, too ugly, ruins neighborhood character, etc.). I hate to be cynical, but it seems that many are latching onto the R4 to R6 zoning variance request as the primary reason this proposal should be stopped because it has the most legitimacy, when the reality is they just don't want more apartments near their houses.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 2:14 pm
by Silophant
Isn't this being developed by Doran? They're not out of state, even if that wasn't a bullshit reason to be mad about a project.

Re: Sons of Norway block redevelopment - 1455 Lake St W

Posted: February 12th, 2018, 2:55 pm
by David Greene
Lot of assumptions being made there.

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