Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
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Calhoun Towers - 3430 List Place (295' - 24 stories)

Postby twincitizen » April 3rd, 2017, 6:39 am

Some details about a potentially massive development on the land adjacent to Calhoun Tower:
(from a grant request document submitted to the city)
Calhoun Towers (3404 and 3430 List Place)
Projected DEED Request: $32,760
Projected Met Council TBRA Request: $30,000
Calhoun Towers site is an existing 21-story tower along with over four acres of developable land.
Bader Development plans to create a master development that includes approximately 375 new
multifamily units (in a new high rise residential tower and a new mid-rise building) along with
pedestrian, bicycle, and vehicular connections to the West Lake station of the Southwest LRT.
The total projected development cost is $100,000,000. Grant funds, if awarded, will be used to
conduct an environmental investigation that will help determine the nature and cost of any
environmental remediation that may be required.
That's a lot of units. I'd imagine the tower is of similar height to the existing and much of the current vacant land gets covered by a parking structure wrapped in additional units. This project is likely still years away. The grant funds requested are pretty small, so this is just a preliminary environmental investigation of the site. Also probably safe to say a project that large will only happen if SWLRT indeed moves forward.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Anondson » April 3rd, 2017, 7:06 am

Nice. I bet they end up squeezing all that in without a twin tower equally tall.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Nathan » April 3rd, 2017, 9:07 am

This is the kind of project that needs to be drawn to the attention of the legislature. 100m dollars in private development and then what in continued tax revenue that hangs in the balance... another tower here would be cool. The can hopefully tidy up the modernist/brut tower without destroying it's character and then build something complimentary. Neo brut is a thing now :)

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Silophant » April 3rd, 2017, 9:36 am

The current legislature would just see it as another reason to kill SWLRT. They're way past the point of even being able to fool themselves that this is about anything besides screwing over the cities, no matter what the cost.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 3rd, 2017, 9:49 am

Just some context, these were discussed here: http://finance-commerce.com/2017/01/pur ... un-towers/
Ted Bickel, a vice president with a multifamily division of the local office of Colliers International, said the fact that Calhoun Towers sits on 4.6 acres almost adjacent to Lake Calhoun influenced the high purchase price for the land and building.
“That site is significant in its size,” Bickel said. “The sales price is somewhat attributable to the redevelopment possibilities.”
Brian Short said in December that the Calhoun Towers’ developer originally planned to build more than one tower on the site, but that never happened.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 3rd, 2017, 9:52 am

I lived here before and I remember the landlord saying that it's called "Calhoun Towers" (plural) because originally it was supposed to have a twin tower, but the cost to build the original tower was exorbitant due to sinking foundation, so they never built the twin, and I had sort of thought that nothing else could be built here -- even though I was hoping this kind of project could eventually happen.

The original is apparently only 103 units, so 375 units would be massive compared to this original. It'll either be a stockier building (the original is fairly skinny) or it'll rise quite high -- at least one of the two buildings they're proposing. I'm not familiar with the zoning code in this area but I wouldn't be too surprised to see 25+ floors, since I believe the condo tower down the street just north of Lake Calhoun is at least that tall. I also wouldn't be surprised if they built this project regardless if SWLRT goes through, since the occupancy rates at Calhoun Towers is always near 100% since I've tracked them, and they would have little trouble filling up 375 units -- especially if there's a view.

This is GREAT news!

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 3rd, 2017, 10:02 am

I'd like to have a slightly contrarian take a bit here re: SWLRT and this project. This little pocket north/west of Excelsior has tons of multi-family residential already, including the Calhoun Tower itself, without ever having had high-amenity transit serving it. SWLRT would obviously be a very valuable addition and the built-in density already here (plus a few modifications to the public realm) highlight how this station is a really good one from day 1. Anyway, I'm sure SWLRT is an influencing factor, but the Greater Uptown area (including anywhere near the lakes & greenway) have been adding units like crazy for years without any hint of major transit improvement within walking distance, and I think that's mostly what's going on here.

But also let's give these folks the green light to go hog wild on an awesome site in an area slated to get tons of bike/ped/transit improvements.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby twincitizen » April 3rd, 2017, 10:12 am

My comment re: SWLRT was intended to mean that they could build a massive, 375-unit development with less parking, if SWLRT happens. They obviously could and will develop the site regardless of SWLRT, but I don't think they would build that many units in SWLRT's absence because they would have to dedicate more space to parking.

I wonder if they're working on picking up these 2 small parcels that touch Excelsior. A small office building and a 4-unit condo building, outlined in red. Calhoun Towers already owns the site in turquoise.

Image

To the north of the existing tower, they've got a lot of options if they can build on the site of the existing parking deck. As long as they can accommodate current residents' cars somewhere during the construction period, that is probably the ideal part of the site to develop. North of the realigned 31st St, Hennepin County already owns the east half of the "triangle". I wonder if Calhoun Towers will retain that west half of the triangle or sell that piece to Hennepin County / Met Council.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Anondson » April 3rd, 2017, 10:14 am

Right. There were residential towers proposed way back when the Whole Foods site was redeveloped, it was knocked out to be retail only based on traffic worries and wind concerns. Are there a lot of bike commuters from this part into downtown? I mean with practically a bike highway direct into the city, that's something in its favor too.

Can anyone pull up historic traffic counts for this area from the 1990s? I wonder how traffic in the Excelsior/Lake triangle has changed since the Whole Foods area was redeveloped.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 3rd, 2017, 12:41 pm

twincitizen wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 10:12 am
My comment re: SWLRT was intended to mean that they could build a massive, 375-unit development with less parking, if SWLRT happens. They obviously could and will develop the site regardless of SWLRT, but I don't think they would build that many units in SWLRT's absence because they would have to dedicate more space to parking.
Definitely, and I wasn't really knocking you, more pointing out that GOP legislators would (rightly, IMO) challenge the need to support something like SWLRT because it generated this development. They might not like cities, but they could easily point to Uptown or NE Mpls as places that are getting 6-stick and literal towers without LRT investment and conclude cities will be just fine without major transit investments.
twincitizen wrote:
April 3rd, 2017, 10:12 am
To the north of the existing tower, they've got a lot of options if they can build on the site of the existing parking deck. As long as they can accommodate current residents' cars somewhere during the construction period, that is probably the ideal part of the site to develop. North of the realigned 31st St, Hennepin County already owns the east half of the "triangle". I wonder if Calhoun Towers will retain that west half of the triangle or sell that piece to Hennepin County / Met Council.
I still think a land swap would be a good option for that area around the likely street re-route. Give the Calhoun Towers folks a contiguous slice on the north side of the new street and the county can get more of what's behind it (with a wide berth for access) to sell off for redevelopment or even use as park space/some other public use.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 3rd, 2017, 2:03 pm

I worry though that the closer the tower(s) get to the north edge of the lot the more residents are going to gripe about height/shadows.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Anondson » April 11th, 2017, 1:19 pm


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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Silophant » April 11th, 2017, 1:46 pm

Wow. And here I just said in a different thread that it doesn't really seem to make sense to build more than one residential tower per block outside of downtown. Never mind, I guess.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Nathan » April 11th, 2017, 2:35 pm

Damn, all the town homes and walk ups and the bus pull up for the station... This looks awesome.

How tall might towers of that size be with so many units?

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Anondson » April 11th, 2017, 2:50 pm

They kinda are rounding off the tip of the site on the north too. Nice...

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby twincitizen » April 11th, 2017, 2:54 pm

RE: Guessing the height

The existing tower has 108 units over 21 stories. However, many of the units are larger than what typically get built today. In the proposed towers, I'd expect to see more studios and smaller 1BRs, and fewer large 2BRs. If built today, that same 21 story tower might hold another 20-40 units (1 or 2 additional per floor). The footprints of the proposed towers appear quite a bit larger than the existing tower, allowing even more units per floor.

Looking more closely at the site plan and building footprints, it leads me to believe the two towers are set on podiums. These towers will have to include some parking for the existing 108-unit tower as well (as its current ramp will be demolished). I'm gonna guess the towers are about 18-20 stories.

RE: new 31st St
Yeah it appears the road will be "curved" more than has been shown in the station area plans. Referencing the above image of Hennepin County property data, there's definitely going to be some land-swapping with the county, deeding road ROW to the city, etc.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 11th, 2017, 3:12 pm

This would be pretty nifty. Overall a pretty good conceptual site plan. Looks like they've got some development on the north side of 31st as well, might just be a concept. I think some quality ped connections between 31st/Abbott and the shopping center would really make a difference since it's not great now.

I'm interested in which bus routes would use this little loop/pull off. Only the 12 & 114 run here now,I still think it would be a pretty good idea to run the proposed Lake St aBRT all the way down Excelsior to TH100 - connecting France Ave to 32nd St just to the west wouldn't be a terrible idea to allow it to make this slight detour to serve all the residential there + meet up with SWLRT.

Anyway, bring this on!

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Calhoun Towers

Postby MNdible » April 11th, 2017, 3:37 pm

I think the water table around here is pretty high given the adjacency to the lakes, so underground parking is probably difficult.

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby Silophant » April 11th, 2017, 4:07 pm

twincitizen wrote:
April 11th, 2017, 2:54 pm
RE: Guessing the height
Looking more closely at the site plan and building footprints, it leads me to believe the two towers are set on podiums. These towers will have to include some parking for the existing 108-unit tower as well (as its current ramp will be demolished). I'm gonna guess the towers are about 18-20 stories.
I think you're right about the podiums. In addition to what MNdible mentioned about the high water table, the plan shows the parking entrances going right under the pools. That... doesn't really make sense in the context of an in-ground pool, but is totally reasonable if the pool is six floors up or so. I think we're looking at the "Opus special" design here.

Google Earth says the existing tower has an approx. 85'x85' footprint. If we assume that the site plan is to scale (maybe a dumb assumption), the new towers have a podium footprint of ~225'x125' and a tower footprint of ~130'x110' - the tower footprint is basically the same as the Nic on 5th, though the podium is smaller. The Nic on 5th has 253 units on 21 floors, atop a five-story podium. Proportionally, we could expect the 195 units in each of these towers to take about 16 residential floors. These towers won't waste podium space on empty retail bays and a skyway corridor, but they have smaller-footprint podiums and have to provide parking for the existing tower, so it seems reasonable to assume five or six floors for those.

Sooo, I'm guessing more like 20-22 stories for the new towers, right around the same height as the existing one.

(Wild speculation ends here.)

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Re: West Lake Station / Calhoun Village area - multimodal study, development, etc.

Postby twincitizen » April 12th, 2017, 6:44 am

http://finance-commerce.com/2017/04/bad ... un-towers/ (locked)

highlights:
*The 3 buildings would be constructed over a span of 5 years, possibly breaking ground as early as 2018.
*Work has already started on rehabbing the existing tower, which is 55(!) years old.
*There used to be a restaurant on the top floor called "Top of the List", which has sat empty for decades. It is being converted into 5 penthouse units.
*Bader paid $32.5MM for the property and vacant land. Based on per-unit price ($292k), this will go down as one of the top sales of the year.


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