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Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 20th, 2018, 9:47 pm
by MNdible
Doesn't Cub own this land? You'd have to expect they'd put a covenant in the sale that would prevent them from leasing to a competitor, right?

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 21st, 2018, 9:08 am
by amiller92
SuperValu does, in fact, own the land, so yeah, that probably means not a grocery store.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 21st, 2018, 9:08 am
by HiawathaGuy
MNdible wrote:
June 20th, 2018, 9:47 pm
Doesn't Cub own this land? You'd have to expect they'd put a covenant in the sale that would prevent them from leasing to a competitor, right?
Nope, they don't own it.

From the June 4th Business Journal article:
Reuter Walton Development purchased the property from Eden Prairie-based Supervalu Inc. (NYSE: SVU) last month. The Arby's restaurant closed in January.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 21st, 2018, 2:40 pm
by MNdible
Ok, but they sold it to RW, so the point still stands. SuperValu wouldn't sell the land to a developer who's hoping to turn around and lease it to a competitor. Unless they're planning to walk away from their Uptown location.

Re: RE: Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 23rd, 2018, 8:56 pm
by David Greene
Qhaberl wrote:I could be wrong, but wasn’t Emerson where the entrance to the parking is supposed to be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
God, it already sucks to walk down Emerson to Lake and this is going to make it worse. Wish they'd put the entrance on Lagoon. I suspect many fewer people walk along that stretch.

And why two huge curb cuts?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: June 30th, 2018, 11:31 pm
by buzz
I've seen signs of site clearing. wonder if it's just maintenance or related to a bigger project.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: September 12th, 2018, 7:32 pm
by bapster2006

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: September 12th, 2018, 8:23 pm
by BigIdeasGuy
I've accepted the fact is going to be a 5 over 1 and that's what this parcel was always going to be but the fact that CPM continues to believe people will want to live 3 steps above Lake Street will always shock me. Why not turn that into retail? I feel a cellphone company would be all over that spot.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: September 12th, 2018, 8:30 pm
by Silophant
Yeah. Too bad the unique ped-oriented concept fell through.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 18th, 2018, 5:27 pm
by Qhaberl

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 7:32 am
by jtoemke
Is there anyone who does pro-formas for a living that can tell me why this 6 story building with a 6.6 million dollar site cannot be placed on other 1 mil fast food sites in less pricey corners of the city and rent for less?

In my head, the 5.6 million dollar difference could definitely make up the difference in charging 1000 mo for a 1 bed vs 1400 mo. But I guess not?

Just something I've never been able to grasp.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 7:52 am
by twincitizen
^Good question. I mean, there are obviously still parts of the city that even 1,000/mo is unattainable and wouldn't lease up, but there are probably a lot more places where you could. But as for your pro-forma comparisons, $2.5M for the "comparison site" is probably more realistic, $1M is not.

Here, I think the developer might've overpaid (only slightly) to get this marquee site. They've done a lot of development in the area and probably had to outbid other buyers to get this site. $6.6M for 0.8 acres is nuts. I'd guess $2-5M per acre is more typical these days for the hot areas (outside of downtown), and that falls closer to $1-2M/acre as you get to less desirable outlying areas, 1st ring burbs, etc. The West End Olive Garden (1.95 ac) sold back in 2013 for $4.85M, and likely would've fetched more today.

I still think this project is kind of a bummer. It's not the ideal site to pack full to the sidewalks with no setbacks, trees, etc. This building is a hulk that fills every corner of the site and goes 6 stories straight up without much facade articulation. 12-15 stories (and more retail at the ground level) would have been great here. This could've been a project that really enhanced the surrounding neighborhood, improved the pedestrian environment, etc. Obviously it will still be a massive improvement from Arby's, but there's a lot not to like about it. This site needed a more imaginative developer than one of the CPM bros.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 9:28 am
by Multimodal
Perhaps intentionally under zoning here would’ve made sense, so the city would have greater say on what happened on this gateway to uptown.

For what they paid for it, you’d think they would’ve built denser & nicer.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 10:33 am
by twincitizen
Probably just nicer. The unit density here is very high. A better/taller project wouldn't necessarily have more units or residents or a higher FAR - instead of having ground-level units 10 feet from Lagoon and not having any setbacks or stepbacks whatsoever, those units would just be replaced on levels 7-10 or whatever. This project is very dense...just done as cheaply as possible.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 11:24 am
by jtoemke
Twincitizen - definitely right about me being off on my pricing - but yeah it's odd

A quick google about what prices actually are lead me to this gem:
https://www.loopnet.com/for-sale/?sk=62 ... oo17Kh6l5B

1402 S First Ave - Directly across from the convention center - is for sale for only 1.25 mil

I bet we see a proposal in the next year.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 19th, 2018, 11:42 am
by Multimodal
That works, TwinCitizen—I’ll take better & taller here.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 22nd, 2018, 11:18 am
by thatchio
Don't underestimate the motivations of the existing property owner. In this case, Supervalu owned the site and leased it to Arbys. They wouldn't care about the business income stream of Arby's, except as it relates to what they are willing to pay in rent. Compare that to a franchise/corporate-owned property say of a McDonald's where there is both the leased revenue stream of the property but also the business income stream. Back in 2014, I recall hearing that McDonald's makes something like $1 million a year just off of a drive thru. So if that's the case, no way you're buying the property for $1 or $2 million.

It would seem there could be opportunities to rebuild fast food uses, with drive thrus, into new mixed-use, multi-story buildings IF they can re-establish their drive thru use. More applicable to sites where the business or its affiliate owns the property.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 22nd, 2018, 12:43 pm
by Multimodal
Thanks for that property vs. business income explanation for land values.
thatchio wrote:It would seem there could be opportunities to rebuild fast food uses, with drive thrus, into new mixed-use, multi-story buildings IF they can re-establish their drive thru use. More applicable to sites where the business or its affiliate owns the property.
Ugh. The success of drive thru’s is dependent on a large volume of constantly changing cars. A walkable, bike-able mixed-use urban area is dependent on low volumes and speeds of cars (hence, not constantly changing).

If we want uptown to be a great, pedestrian prioritized area, then don’t we want to move most people in & out of the area on transit and bikes, not cars?

Mpls should consider banning drive thru’s there, in addition to surface lots and 1-story buildings.

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 22nd, 2018, 6:26 pm
by thatchio
If we want uptown to be a great, pedestrian prioritized area, then don’t we want to move most people in & out of the area on transit and bikes, not cars?
Mpls should consider banning drive thru’s there, in addition to surface lots and 1-story buildings.
I agree on the goal. Drive thrus were (and I believe still are) banned in POs but many exist in the city grandfathered in as non-conforming uses. The policy question, I see, is whether to hold out for the ideal (no drive thru and redeveloped) vs find a way to craft a way to allow allow non-conforming drive thrus to be brought back into redevelopment (subject to conditions) and see the sites redeveloped but with more auto traffic than desired. But this is not applicable to Arby's site anymore, so I will refrain from going down the rabbit hole of what other sites (cough McDonald's in Dinkytown or Uptown comes to mind).

Re: Arby’s Island

Posted: December 22nd, 2018, 7:55 pm
by Silophant
As I understand it, the 2040 plan does ban new drive- throughs.