Motiv Apartments - 2320 Colfax Avenue S

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 23rd, 2014, 1:36 pm

Nope, I can't. I can't even. I watched about 15 seconds, which is enough to confirm that she's got some weird persecution complex, because her argument is being predicated not on any merits of development or preservation (again making the statement that we don't need more apartments and there are other places to build apartments) and then accusing Lander of whatever. So it's about a minority in the "establishment" insidiously trying to destroy whatever, rather than the majority disagreeing with her viewpoint.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 23rd, 2014, 2:45 pm

I love that every meeting is recorded now, whereas last council not all meetings are. I also love that meetings are in Youtube in high def, rather than tiny def Channel 79 recordings.

Anyway, Committee of the Whole, Lisa Bender talks about this at around the 40 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhFhU_y ... HosXodOMSH

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby degersblogg » April 23rd, 2014, 2:49 pm

twincitizen wrote:It's just so strange to me that Nicole Curtis and Meg Tuthill waited so long to get involved in this issue. For Nicole Curtis to flood councilmembers inboxes late the night before the committee vote was a huge swing and miss. And now Tuthill lobbying the council after a 5-1 committee vote...I'm guessing she was expecting the committee vote to go differently or something.

Compared to Nicole Curtis and the MRRDC folks, Anders Christensen actually seems like a pretty decent guy. He seems a bit full of himself at times, but I've never witnessed him being rude. His specific obsession with Healy houses does seem borderline unhealthy, but a lot of my habits/obsessions would probably appear that way as well (i.e. posting on this website). I hope he continues to work at seeing other Healy houses preserved/restored, whether historically significant or not.

All in all, I'm just ready for this to be over. This is a really petty thing for everyone involved to be spending so much time and energy on. There are bigger fish to fry in this city, and far more important public hearings to attend and email councilmembers about (i.e. Hennepin-Lyndale bottleneck, SWLRT municipal consent issues, bike-walk infrastructure and maintenance issues all over the city, heck even just taking 5 minutes to report a pothole on 311 is more important than this damn house)
I'd say Anders Christensen is alright most of the time, but he's the one who accused Lisa Bender of committing violence against the neighborhood.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby t2the_iz_O » April 23rd, 2014, 3:12 pm

degersblogg wrote:I'd say Anders Christensen is alright most of the time, but he's the one who accused Lisa Bender of committing violence against the neighborhood.
In addition to his slur against CM Bender, he also compared the proposal for development at Lyndale and Franklin to soviet Russia. So I'm gonna say he's got a penchant for hyperbole and silly rhetoric when speaking to a crowd.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Silophant » April 23rd, 2014, 6:43 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I love that every meeting is recorded now, whereas last council not all meetings are. I also love that meetings are in Youtube in high def, rather than tiny def Channel 79 recordings.

Anyway, Committee of the Whole, Lisa Bender talks about this at around the 40 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhFhU_y ... HosXodOMSH
Watched the discussion of this property just now. Goodman made me roll my eyes back into my head, of curse, but Gordon sounded like he's still deliberating, which I found encouraging. This is voted on on Friday, right?

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby degersblogg » April 23rd, 2014, 7:03 pm

Silophant wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:I love that every meeting is recorded now, whereas last council not all meetings are. I also love that meetings are in Youtube in high def, rather than tiny def Channel 79 recordings.

Anyway, Committee of the Whole, Lisa Bender talks about this at around the 40 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhFhU_y ... HosXodOMSH
Watched the discussion of this property just now. Goodman made me roll my eyes back into my head, of curse, but Gordon sounded like he's still deliberating, which I found encouraging. This is voted on on Friday, right?
Yes, Friday morning. Here's the tentative vote count:

Yes:
Bender
Pres Johnson
A Johnson
Reich
Warsame
Frey
Palmisano
Cano
Gordon

No:
Goodman
Quincy
Glidden
Yang

Gordon and Yang are still moveable. I'm pretty sure everyone else has made up their mind.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 23rd, 2014, 8:08 pm

I've been in an interesting conversation about the house today and learned a few things.

One is that some people are worried about proper process not being followed. Apparently, once a structure is given Historic Resource designation (rightly or wrongly), demolition can only happen if it is a hazard or there is no other reasonable alternative. I agree with this concern. Proper process should be followed. It all comes down to what's considered a "reasonable alternative." The city council cannot consider Mr. Crow's profit margin when it is contingent on a city council action (I also agree this is reasonable), so ignore that aspect for the moment.

This person went on to state that Nicole Curtis has offered $400k for the house. I have no idea if that number is credible, but let's assume it is. Is that reasonable? I suppose one could argue it is, but of course Mr. Crow isn't obligated to sell. Each side has taken a calculated risk: Ms. Curtis that the house won't be demolished and Mr. Crow that demolition will be approved. One is not going to be happy about the result of the vote and at that point will have to consider other options (counter-offers, for example) in order to get what they want.

I looked up property information for a house four down from ours, a brick foursquare that is smaller than the Orth house and is on a lot 44% smaller than that of the Orth house in a perhaps slightly less desirable location (I love it just fine FWIW). The house sold about two years ago, just as the housing marking was barely starting to come back. That house sold for $370,000.

So even as a single-family home (which it is not), the Orth house should be worth quite a bit more than a nondescript foursquare on a much smaller lot. Reasonable people can still disagree about whether Nicole's offer is a "reasonable alternative" but I know where I stand on that.

EDIT: The $400k may not have been from Ms. Curtis but rather another group trying to move the house. It was a bit ambiguous in the conversation.
Last edited by David Greene on April 23rd, 2014, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 23rd, 2014, 8:17 pm

Cam Gordon had some really good stuff to say about that at the CoW meeting, about property owner's rights and how the city can't really compel the owner to take a much lower asking price for the house because they city wants him to do something different with his property.

Really, we should all listen to the ~20 minutes or so, starting at around 40 minutes in. There's a lot of really good debate, and even though I disagree with Lisa Goodman's view on this situation, I can definitly respect her position, and her discussion on how reasonable people can come down on either side of this (subtly debunking the idea that anybody that approves demolition is being bought off or something).

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mcrow25115 » April 23rd, 2014, 8:17 pm

I can't post the email that Anders sent me on this page for some reason so I will post it right after I post this. before the appeal that he filed in April of 2013, and after he received the decision that he wanted I never heard another word from him. I don’t know Anders, and never met him before this and he may be a great guy and believe in what he’s doing, but he does have a financial interest in this and has promoted himself on his website tiger ox painting as a specialist in painting and restoration of the old homes in the wedge and surrounding areas for decades, and there is nothing wrong with that, I feel whatever a person does to be successful and make money in their line of work is great. I think any business person should be able to make as much money as they legally can, whatever they do, without someone taking their rights away.

I live in the wedge and have for decades, I have always loved the diversity of the people, businesses and activities it offers and without the 80% of the renters that live here it would not be the area that it is, and I would not have had a job, not everyone can afford to buy a home. The renters are the of thousands of people that work and live in and support the businesses, and are able to walk, bike and use the mass transit to do this because they live here, and as much as think the homeowner have added the stability, we would not be the place that people want to come to without each other.
One of The reasons that I have tried to sell the building as a rooming house, besides that is what it is, for so long is that I would not have to displace the tenants that live there, it is a more transit type of housing than most others but about 50% of the tenants have been here from 5 to 14 years and are as good of renters as you could find, but because of personal reason I can’t wait any longer. I have told them that I will give them at least three months’ notice and try to help any of them find new housing if they needed it. And now I feel even worse about the delays and rollercoaster ride that they have had to endure because of the publicity and delays. Yesterday the 22nd of April Nicole Curtis submitted her first purchase agreement to purchase the building for $200,000. Less than the agreement that I already have, and I am not in a financial position to consider it or would I, or anybody else I believe. Would you? Yesterday Nicole was out front of the building with 9 news doing an interview that some of my tenants were watching and told the interviewer that she had made an offer and that all of the tenants would have to be out in 30 days or something to that effect, or at least that’s what the tenants told me as I was inundated with calls from them asking me if it were true. I don’t believe that the opposition is a majority and I don’t think they care about anybody else. The building is not being sold for a premium price, the sale price is far below its appraised value for whatever appraisal are worth, it has always been difficult to get an appraisal because there are very few if any comps, but if you look up any apartment building with 14 to 16 units you will be hard pressed to find one for less than $800,000. And I am $200,000. Below that.

Mike

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mplsjaromir » April 23rd, 2014, 8:21 pm

Nicole Curtis offered $200k for a 14 unit apartment building in The Wege???? What is wrong her?

Edit : I misread the post. My bad.
Last edited by mplsjaromir on April 23rd, 2014, 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 23rd, 2014, 8:32 pm

She offered $400k (that's what David said, and what was said at the CoW meeting today) for a SFH that pretty much needs to be gutted. Unfortunately it's not currently a SFH, it's a 14 unit SRO. And there's no reason it should be sold for what somebody wants it to be, rather than what it actually is. It's also really hard to price something like this, but professionals have been employed and they're doing the best they can to price it. If Mike says $800k is fair market value, and he's selling for $200k under that at $600k, I have no reason to doubt that those are reasonable numbers, especially when no opponents of demolition have come out and given what they believe to be a more accurate value of the property AS IS.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mattaudio » April 23rd, 2014, 8:34 pm

But clearly turning this into a renovated half million dollar plus single family home is better for affordable housing than building a 45 unit apartment building. Dontchaknow.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mcrow25115 » April 23rd, 2014, 8:35 pm

this is the email
Attached Message

From: Anders Christensen <anders@tigeroxpainting.com>
To: MCrow25115@aol.com
Subject: City required meeting post
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:09:55 -0500

Mike,

As you are no doubt aware, I have filed an appeal to the Planning Director's determination regarding 2320 Colfax Ave. So. as an historic resource. The City requires me to post on the four corners of your property at 2320 Colfax Ave. So. notice of the meeting on April 16th. I will be doing this tomorrow, April 6, 2013.

In my view, the Orth House is an historic resource for the neighborhood and the entire city. You obviously see it differently. I intend to continue in my efforts to preserve this building. I understand your desire to sell, to cash out. As Michael Lander's proposal continues to falter, we will work to bring together a group that can achieve your goal of selling out, cashing out.

My interest is in the house and the neighborhood. And while we are on opposite sides of this particular proposal, that doesn't mean that we won't one day be striking a deal that gets us both what we want.

Yours, Anders

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mcrow25115 » April 23rd, 2014, 8:39 pm

hopefully everyone can understand the post, letter and than the email below, sorry not a computer wiz

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby degersblogg » April 23rd, 2014, 8:45 pm

David Greene wrote:I've been in an interesting conversation about the house today and learned a few things.

One is that some people are worried about proper process not being followed. Apparently, once a structure is given Historic Resource designation (rightly or wrongly), demolition can only happen if it is a hazard or there is no other reasonable alternative. I agree with this concern. Proper process should be followed. It all comes down to what's considered a "reasonable alternative." The city council cannot consider Mr. Crow's profit margin when it is contingent on a city council action (I also agree this is reasonable), so ignore that aspect for the moment.

This person went on to state that Nicole Curtis has offered $400k for the house. I have no idea if that number is credible, but let's assume it is. Is that reasonable? I suppose one could argue it is, but of course Mr. Crow isn't obligated to sell. Each side has taken a calculated risk: Ms. Curtis that the house won't be demolished and Mr. Crow that demolition will be approved. One is not going to be happy about the result of the vote and at that point will have to consider other options (counter-offers, for example) in order to get what they want.

I looked up property information for a house four down from ours, a brick foursquare that is smaller than the Orth house and is on a lot 44% smaller than that of the Orth house in a perhaps slightly less desirable location (I love it just fine FWIW). The house sold about two years ago, just as the housing marking was barely starting to come back. That house sold for $370,000.

So even as a single-family home (which it is not), the Orth house should be worth quite a bit more than a nondescript foursquare on a much smaller lot. Reasonable people can still disagree about whether Nicole's offer is a "reasonable alternative" but I know where I stand on that.

EDIT: The $400k may not have been from Ms. Curtis but rather another group trying to move the house. It was a bit ambiguous in the conversation.
The section regarding demolition of an historic resource of the heritage preservation chapter of the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances says that significance and integrity of the property must be considered as part of the reasonable alternatives. City historic preservation staff and the Z&P found that the integrity of the building is no longer intact and is not eligible for historic designation. That finding was enough for them to grant demolition, and trumps consideration of any offer Curtis may have made as a reasonable alternative.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 23rd, 2014, 8:57 pm

degersblogg wrote:The section regarding demolition of an historic resource of the heritage preservation chapter of the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances says that significance and integrity of the property must be considered as part of the reasonable alternatives. City historic preservation staff and the Z&P found that the integrity of the building is no longer intact and is not eligible for historic designation. That finding was enough for them to grant demolition, and trumps consideration of any offer Curtis may have made as a reasonable alternative.
Thanks for the info. Did the city council rule that the house is a historic resource last year, or just deny demolition? That seems to be an important question to answer.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 23rd, 2014, 9:01 pm

Anders owns Tiger Ox? They do good work. They've repainted a number of homes in the neighborhood. We might have gone with them for our project if they did siding replacement.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby degersblogg » April 23rd, 2014, 9:08 pm

David Greene wrote:
degersblogg wrote:The section regarding demolition of an historic resource of the heritage preservation chapter of the Minneapolis Code of Ordinances says that significance and integrity of the property must be considered as part of the reasonable alternatives. City historic preservation staff and the Z&P found that the integrity of the building is no longer intact and is not eligible for historic designation. That finding was enough for them to grant demolition, and trumps consideration of any offer Curtis may have made as a reasonable alternative.
Thanks for the info. Did the city council rule that the house is a historic resource last year, or just deny demolition? That seems to be an important question to answer.
They declared it a historic resource. Because CPED didn't consider it an historic resource, they administratively approved the demolition permit. However, that determination was appealed and based on that appeal it was deemed as an historic resource and demolition was blocked. Mr. Crow has come back with an application for demolition of an historic resource, which is legally a separate issue. John Smoley of the City's historic preservation staff and Eric Nilsson from the City Attorney's office explained the difference quite well at last week's Z&P meeting.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mcrow25115 » April 23rd, 2014, 9:20 pm

the point I was trying to get across was that prior to the appeal in April 2013 several people said they would come up with a solution and once they got the decision they wanted, I never heard another word in over a year. today in the meeting Nicole said she had made an offer before which is not true and I would like them to ask her bring some proof. And I promise not to copy and paste anymore, little embarrassing.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 23rd, 2014, 9:25 pm

I'd rather have too much information than not enough :D

Thanks for joining the conversation Mike, it's really good to hear some of this stuff from the source.

Nicole said she put in an offer on the house last year, and another one yesterday, but Mike says she's made no offers. I'm inclined to believe Mike, if for no other reason than he's been completely open an honest throughout this entire process.


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