Motiv Apartments - 2320 Colfax Avenue S

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
David Greene
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2014, 11:44 am

They aren't nutjobs. They're passionate about something, just like you and I. We may disagree on the value of the home but we can all agree that there are in fact historic homes worth fighting to save.

One of our society's biggest problems is the general lack of empathy. We seem not to teach it anymore.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 21st, 2014, 11:51 am

Nobody here threw a candle light vigil when demolition was denied for the Camdi building. We stopped, looked around, and got ready for the next round. Who do we need to convince. Who do we need to get out of office. Stuff like that.

I'm not sure why we need to kowtow to an extreme minority that are convinced that the only way that the process can come out not in their favor is if it's rigged. They need to show some fucking empathy, they assume that anyone that disagrees with them is corrupt and being bought off (from Facebook commenters all the way up to elected officials). I'll show these anti-change groups some empathy and respect when they show our side even the remotest amount of it.

There are two sides to every story, but that doesn't mean that the "right" answer lies somewhere in the middle. And I think now this is the third time I've told that to you in response to your defense of NIMBY polemics.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby ECtransplant » April 21st, 2014, 12:26 pm

In a pluralistic society, the first reaction to something weird, nutty, even creepy, should not be to involve the cops

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Anondson
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Anondson » April 21st, 2014, 12:28 pm

Sad that has become so unrealistic.

David Greene
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 21st, 2014, 12:35 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:There are two sides to every story, but that doesn't mean that the "right" answer lies somewhere in the middle. And I think now this is the third time I've told that to you in response to your defense of NIMBY polemics.
And this is at least the third time I've asked people to demonstrate respect for people. Respect is not kowtowing. It does not matter whether or not the other side shows respect. It does not matter if you get anything out of it Show respect anyway because it's the decent, human thing to do.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 21st, 2014, 12:44 pm

Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. Respect doesn't mean legitimizing people with views that are just plain wrong. Giving a crazy person's ideas the same credence as you do a reasonable person diminishes everybody that has, you know, a brain. Respecting a position legitimizes it. I refuse to legitimize an extreme viewpoint not based in any reality. I'm an atheist, and I can respect a Christian for having their belief. I can't respect a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, because they're batshit insane.

And if I was a tenant in 2320 and didn't have any idea what was going on, I'd think it was creepy as hell to have people holding a candle light vigil across the street from me. If I was Mike Crow I'd 100% call the police and complain about harassment. People have the right to do what they want, but I'd have a hard time not feeling like this vigil was some kind of harassment.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 21st, 2014, 2:05 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I'm an atheist, and I can respect a Christian for having their belief. I can't respect a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, because they're batshit insane.
This. Respecting any opinion or take just because someone has it takes away from the respect you give to people with legitimate cases but differing viewpoints or how they weigh factors in life. Holding a candlelight vigil outside an inanimate object like a house is the absolute form of personifying it as a means of playing emotional warfare. This house is not alive. It doesn't tell stories, have relatives or friends, can't enjoy nice days or anything else that we typically associate with loss. I understand the people who are passionate about preservation feel that certain buildings define their sense of place, somehow maintain their view of shared culture, believe keeping aging structures is a worthy environmental goal, or whatever other reasons people have for saving structures. I mostly disagree with them on these, but can at least respect that viewpoint and have a debate on merit. Acting like a house is a person and crying over it (not unlike Nicole Curtis' actions on the Park Ave home she cried at, which she later admitted was the wrong way to approach things) is the definition of insane.

Would anyone argue someone was a bit off their rocker if people held candlelight vigils at a junkyard?

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 21st, 2014, 5:49 pm

Who wants to go to the vigil tonight after the Lisa Bender Improv thingy?

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mattaudio » April 21st, 2014, 6:02 pm

Sounds like a party. A vigil for reason.

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Nathan
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Nathan » April 22nd, 2014, 12:21 pm

Can we please make Pro Bendrification signs and go to the vigil tonight?

Also, will someone come up with a real definition of what adding density and Bendrifying things really means for the city and the environment?

lordmoke
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby lordmoke » April 22nd, 2014, 12:56 pm

For those who missed 'Bendrifying:"

https://www.facebook.com/MplsRRDC/posts/450378898429609

WHAT IS EVEN HAPPENING

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby mulad » April 22nd, 2014, 1:12 pm

(Lisa) Bender + gentrifying/-ication/etc., eh?

Sigh.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby ECtransplant » April 22nd, 2014, 1:40 pm

Elections have consequences. The people of this ward rejected NITBYism (not in Tuthill's backyard) pretty resoundingly last fall. Maybe they should vote with their feet and move to San Fransisco if they want a city that stands with the nutjobs in the way of progress

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Nathan
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Nathan » April 22nd, 2014, 2:01 pm

lordmoke wrote:For those who missed 'Bendrifying:"

https://www.facebook.com/MplsRRDC/posts/450378898429609

WHAT IS EVEN HAPPENING
The MRRDC page itself like my comment on this post which has me extremely confused as to which side I'm even on :/ lol

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 2:11 pm

At least this is exactly what I figured would happen with a group like this. As time goes on they'd reveal themselves to be farther and farther form the mainstream, and in the end discredit themselves with their own madness. Most of what they post doesn't get any activity, but to have six comments, all of them calling MRRRDC out for sinking to lows they pretended they never would, that's pretty great. Some pretty great schadenfreude for me. I wonder how long all of those comments are deleted and the posters banned.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 2:14 pm

Also, to be clear, Alex and I were banned from that page for disagreeing with the admins. We can still "Like" the page, but we can't comment on anything they post, or even like any individual post. So I've always known they were trolls at heart. It's just taken a little bit longer for everybody else to see it as well.

E: I don't think troll is the right word, because I think they actually hold the views they advocate for. I guess I don't have a good word for them, other than crazy.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby lordmoke » April 22nd, 2014, 2:23 pm

If you go back a week, they actually side with K-Mart in the whole Nicollet-Lake reconstruction situation. I'm generally not interested in nitpicking what these groups have to say, but that post is just stunning.

This whole thing is ridiculously stupid, because historic preservation is incredibly important and crap like this completely discredits the cause.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby MNdible » April 22nd, 2014, 2:28 pm

I fully support this project, but a lot of you all are way off the mark in your rhetoric. Comparing people who are passionate about their neighborhood with the Westboro folks? Come on. That's just weak. Was a nazi reference too dated?

Also, to suggest that the fact that Bender beat Tuthill means that there was a mandate for densification? There are a lot of reasons people vote for one candidate (or often vote against another). I'd wager that most folks who voted for Bender wouldn't list a desire to increase density as one of the top three reasons that they did so. Yes, elections have consequences, but be careful any time you try to draw a mandate from an election.

Again, I'm in favor of this project, but many of you are too close to this thing and losing some perspective.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 2:35 pm

lordmoke wrote:If you go back a week, they actually side with K-Mart in the whole Nicollet-Lake reconstruction situation. I'm generally not interested in nitpicking what these groups have to say, but that post is just stunning.

This whole thing is ridiculously stupid, because historic preservation is incredibly important and crap like this completely discredits the cause.
They've decided that the city is their enemy more than anything else, so anything that is against the city is good in their mind.
MNdible wrote:I fully support this project, but a lot of you all are way off the mark in your rhetoric. Comparing people who are passionate about their neighborhood with the Westboro folks? Come on. That's just weak. Was a nazi reference too dated?
Can you honestly and genuinely look at the actions of the MRRDC group and say that are reasonable? I have no doubt they are sincere in their views. I have no doubt that members of the Westboro baptist church are sincere in their views. The MRRDC is doing more harm than good to its cause. It's disappointing to me that they can't be a group dedicated to actual responsible development, rather than just knee-jerk opposing everything.

I once posted, asking for an "official" clarification of what the group would view as a responsible development, along with examples. They couldn't name any. Someone posted that they thought the Wedge Coop was a good example, but I'd say that's been pretty disastrous for car traffic in that area, so I think their view of what is "responsible" means "suburban."

Put it another way, you can't always say no. You have to say yes sometimes. I don't see this group jumping up to say yes to anything.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby MNdible » April 22nd, 2014, 2:40 pm

OK, just so we're clear, any time one of you makes an unreasonable suggestion (and that never happens), it's fair game to compare you to some of the most hateful and bigoted people in the country?


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