Motiv Apartments - 2320 Colfax Avenue S

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 2:51 pm

When hold candlelight vigils outside someone's private property, while claiming to foster open debate about whatever, but think that my extreme views are the mainstream, and also think that I'm being persecuted by the government, yes, you can make that comparison.

And to be fair, the analogy I was making of respecting people who disagree with me, and I picked Westboro Baptist Church to represent an extreme fringe group of Christianity that doesn't represent Christians as a whole. I can't respect the Westboro Baptist Church, not because they're Christian (which is a viewpoint I personally don't hold), but because their views are so far from the mainstream, and also an extreme distortion of Christianity in general. To continue this analogy, I can respect people that want to preserve historic buildings, even though we don't hold the exact same values. But these people have taken it to an extreme, and they're distorting what historic preservation is, and also giving a bad name to anybody that supports historic preservation (Bill Lindke wrote an excellent article about preservation today: https://streets.mn/2014/04/22/density-is ... -resource/).

And I don't think I could make a Hitler/Nazi analogy here if I tried. It's not like Nazisim is an extreme branch of an otherwise reasonable movement or school of thought. And that was my intention when using the Westboro Baptist church in my analogy.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby aeisenberg » April 22nd, 2014, 3:27 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:Also, to be clear, Alex and I were banned from that page for disagreeing with the admins. We can still "Like" the page, but we can't comment on anything they post, or even like any individual post. So I've always known they were trolls at heart. It's just taken a little bit longer for everybody else to see it as well.

E: I don't think troll is the right word, because I think they actually hold the views they advocate for. I guess I don't have a good word for them, other than crazy.
I'm also banned, FYI.
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tab
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby tab » April 22nd, 2014, 3:40 pm

Meanwhile, across the river, the A-Mill is being renovated and historically preserved. Compared to 2316-2320 Colfax, the A-Mill complex is (1) much more significant, historically; (2) much more visible to the general public; and (3) about 100x larger. It seems like the poster child for a development that preservationists and urbanists can agree on.

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Nick
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Nick » April 22nd, 2014, 3:45 pm

Didn't we sort of win this in a landslide? I feel like we should focus on the next thing (Lyndale & Franklin?) instead of antagonizing anyone unnecessarily...

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 3:46 pm

It's not over 'til it's over...

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby aeisenberg » April 22nd, 2014, 3:59 pm

Nick wrote:Didn't we sort of win this in a landslide? I feel like we should focus on the next thing (Lyndale & Franklin?) instead of antagonizing anyone unnecessarily...
To be fair, a) this is super entertaining to watch and discuss, and b) certain people already seem to be at maximum antagonization
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 4:03 pm

I also think that these Polemics don't just discredit the groups opposition to this particular project, but their opposition to anything. So in a way, this is focusing on the Lyndale & Franklin project, because it delegitimizes MRRDC as an opposition group.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Nick » April 22nd, 2014, 4:49 pm

Well, I guess that "Minneapolis Residents for Responsible Development Coalition" already sounds like something from the Onion, and so throw in the candlelight vigil and they've pretty much done themselves in?

I just get antsy when too many people start agreeing with themselves in one place. Like, we've definitely made up words too.

Anyway, I think Phil and I might stop by just to take it all in.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 4:53 pm

Nick wrote: I just get antsy when too many people start agreeing with themselves in one place. Like, we've definitely made up words too.
I agree with this, and more than anything is what disappoints me about this whole thing. I'd like there to be reasonable sane opposition, just to keep both sides honest, rather than opposition that has to resort to histrionics.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby Silophant » April 22nd, 2014, 5:48 pm

Nick wrote:Didn't we sort of win this in a landslide? I feel like we should focus on the next thing (Lyndale & Franklin?) instead of antagonizing anyone unnecessarily...
Not until the full CC votes. They overturned Z&P on The Venue, they could again.

Oh, and if we're keeping score, I'm also banned from the MRRDC FB page, as of today. Whee.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby WestCoastDude » April 22nd, 2014, 7:04 pm

I am all in favor of preservation and design standards, and I love the TP Healy homes just as much as anyone. But this particular house is not one that even comes close to the other Healy homes in it's design integrity. Most of it has already been burned, replaced and modified. It does not carry the weight of history or preservation of most of the others except in the mind of the TP Healy activists who have gone off the deep end. Reminds me of the Tea Party protesters holding up "Hands Off My Medicare" signs.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 22nd, 2014, 7:25 pm

Looking forward to seeing some of you at the vigil tonight!
Also, I guess Nicole Curtis is going too.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby aeisenberg » April 22nd, 2014, 9:21 pm

I showed up late... joined a couple guys who didn't seem to be affiliated with UrbanMSP or Forward Minneapolis, but who thought the vigil was a freak show and had heard about it on Twitter....they were confronted by a vigilite who said "you'll all be living in Bloomington in 15 years!" and refused to believe they lived in the neighborhood, going so far as to ask one kid for his address and then describe the building he lives in. He accused these guys (again, not affiliated with us) of "hiding behind your laptops." to which they responded "Umm... we're not who you must think we are." ....It was true insanity. Unbelievably tribal.
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 22nd, 2014, 9:44 pm

Look, I get that you all don't like these folks, but what's the godd*mn point of attending the vigils? Is this really about advocating for density or is about antagonizing people?

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby lordmoke » April 22nd, 2014, 9:48 pm

Just to watch? That's clearly what the other guys there were doing. It's not like they brought signs or did anything antagonizing (I hope.)

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 22nd, 2014, 9:50 pm

lordmoke wrote:Just to watch? That's clearly what the other guys there were doing. It's not like they brought signs or did anything antagonizing (I hope.)
I sure hope not. What's to watch, though? It just seems like a total waste of energy.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 22nd, 2014, 9:53 pm

Yea. I just went and stood in the crowd and let people pet my amazingly cute dog. Nicole Curtis and Anders Christensen gave a little speech. It was well attended. I felt dirty.

What's the point? It's a beautiful night, I don't have kids to tend to, I have a dog that likes to go on walks, I like seeing celebrities.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby aeisenberg » April 22nd, 2014, 10:05 pm

David Greene wrote:Look, I get that you all don't like these folks, but what's the godd*mn point of attending the vigils? Is this really about advocating for density or is about antagonizing people?
Just to watch. It's fascinating to see people who likely identify as liberal/progressive act so much like the Tea Party. It's just fascinating. They don't even realize it.

The guys I was talking to were frankly minding their own business until some guy figured out they were the Other. What's even more bizarre is that the vigilite called the gawkers cowards for not interrupting the speeches or making their own.
Last edited by aeisenberg on April 22nd, 2014, 10:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby FISHMANPET » April 22nd, 2014, 10:06 pm

So Nicole Curtis was interviewed by Fox 9 today I guess? Is this vigil getting any press? I'm not sure which is worse for their cause, getting mocking press, or no press at all.

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Re: 2316-2320 Colfax Apartments

Postby David Greene » April 22nd, 2014, 10:07 pm

spdcheetah wrote:Just to watch. The guys I was talking to were frankly minding their own business. What's even more bizarre is that the vigilite called the gawkers cowards for not interrupting the speeches or making a their own.
Yeah, that's bizarre.


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