2103 Wabash

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karen nelson
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2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » February 22nd, 2018, 4:45 pm

The agglomeration of older buildings at this site are apparently going to be developed into to some residences and commercial spaces while keeping the historic buildings - a former slaughter house.

They needed a Conditional Use Permit or Zoing Variance for this use given its industrial zoning - I think they have gotten the CUP and are using some sort of historic tax credits to help fund project.

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sanchopanza
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby sanchopanza » February 22nd, 2018, 6:20 pm

I applaud their ambition. This is really heavy industrial area. Maybe the first of many residential additions in the area.

QuietBlue
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby QuietBlue » February 23rd, 2018, 8:58 am

OTOH, more housing is always great, but OTOH, St. Paul (and Minneapolis too, for that matter) aren't creating new industrial zoned land either, which makes it harder for some companies to stay located in the core cities.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby FISHMANPET » February 23rd, 2018, 10:25 am

I've heard that there are issues finding light manufacturing space in the city. For example there are a lot of industrial buildings along Minnehaha that have been turned into mosques, there's actually a bit of demand for smaller industrial space in the city now.

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby mattaudio » February 23rd, 2018, 12:21 pm

Walkable to Menards. My kind of place.

alexschief
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby alexschief » February 23rd, 2018, 1:09 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
February 23rd, 2018, 10:25 am
I've heard that there are issues finding light manufacturing space in the city. For example there are a lot of industrial buildings along Minnehaha that have been turned into mosques, there's actually a bit of demand for smaller industrial space in the city now.
If there's so much demand, how come light manufacturing interests are being outbid for the use of these spaces by mosques?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but something doesn't line up there. Perhaps the industrial buildings available are not suited to the kind of manufacturing that people are looking to do?

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby VacantLuxuries » February 23rd, 2018, 3:44 pm

If there's so much demand, how come light manufacturing interests are being outbid for the use of these spaces by mosques?
I wonder if it's because the kind of space light industrial needs today is different than the existing buildings that are being replaced and turned residential? All I've got to go on is speculation though.

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby QuietBlue » February 23rd, 2018, 3:50 pm

alexschief wrote:
February 23rd, 2018, 1:09 pm
If there's so much demand, how come light manufacturing interests are being outbid for the use of these spaces by mosques?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but something doesn't line up there. Perhaps the industrial buildings available are not suited to the kind of manufacturing that people are looking to do?
Because it's probably less important to the manufacturers to be in the city than it is for the mosques. There's plenty of industrial space out in the suburbs (though there are an increasing number of mosques/worship centers too). I'm saying it's better for the cities if they don't get rid of all of their industrial space.

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby QuietBlue » February 23rd, 2018, 3:55 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
February 23rd, 2018, 3:44 pm
I wonder if it's because the kind of space light industrial needs today is different than the existing buildings that are being replaced and turned residential? All I've got to go on is speculation though.
No doubt that's part of it too, but it's a lot harder to create new industrial zoned land than it is to rezone it into something else.

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Tiller
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby Tiller » February 24th, 2018, 1:35 am

Are there relevant/needed kinds of industrial space that could reasonably work in a traditional mixed-use zoning area (if our zoning code were to allow them)?

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby alexschief » February 24th, 2018, 9:42 am

Tiller wrote:
February 24th, 2018, 1:35 am
Are there relevant/needed kinds of industrial space that could reasonably work in a traditional mixed-use zoning area (if our zoning code were to allow them)?
That's one of the big hopes with 3D printing.

karen nelson
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » February 24th, 2018, 6:21 pm

Some part of this development is intended to be commerical with spaces that could be maker spaces.

And these buildings sat nearly empty for decades after slaughter house left. There is a guitar store there now and there was a Dog boarding place but they've moved to better digs to the north of University., clearly these buildings weren't useful to any industrial users as they were.

Sounds like being able to get some funding for historic aspect is only thing that made this project viable.

I don't know if anyone was ever interested in demo-ing the land and building new industrial space.

Given there seems to demand for smaller light industrial in cities, wonder if any developers are looking for opportunities in industrial zoned areas, would be great if they were. Wondering if demand for residential space is crowding out industrial offerings.

I think it's important to have some sort of job preservation efforts in from industrial areas, so cities don't just turn into bedroom communities, but how best to encourage/ manage that, not sure..

Waiting on the irony of the possible restaurant space in basement to be a vegan restaurant.

karen nelson
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » February 24th, 2018, 6:28 pm

There are rumors about a big development to come at the corner of Cleveland and University near this site.

I can see this whole former industrial area south of University, except for probably Westrock, turning over with all new developments, in the next 10-15 years. Probably a once in a century opportunity to get this as sort of right as we can.

karen nelson
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » February 24th, 2018, 6:32 pm

sanchopanza wrote:
February 22nd, 2018, 6:20 pm
I applaud their ambition. This is really heavy industrial area. Maybe the first of many residential additions in the area.
It's not that far from Monster Brewing and art galleries etc. It's turning over.

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby Minnehahaha » February 24th, 2018, 10:32 pm

I wonder how long it will be before we start hearing calls for better odor control at West Rock as more developments like this start popping up in the area. Things can get a bit... fragrant over a large surrounding area during the summer.

karen nelson
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » February 27th, 2018, 2:45 pm

Minnehahaha wrote:
February 24th, 2018, 10:32 pm
I wonder how long it will be before we start hearing calls for better odor control at West Rock as more developments like this start popping up in the area. Things can get a bit... fragrant over a large surrounding area during the summer.
That's why cities want to protect industrial zoning - build enough residences, breweries, art galleries, nearby and they start demanding rest of area become cleaner, nicer, and crowd out industrial areas.

But to me, allowing long empty, former industrial areas to turnover to in demand uses that value the city location more than the former users, just makes economic sense. To a legacy business that likes their location and owns the land and has all kinds of building/equipment, that can really suck to get pushed out...but from city's point of view - how long and what cost are you supposed to protect them when no one else in that line of work is interested in the nearby locations anymore, but other will pay dearly for it.

mthieroff
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby mthieroff » March 7th, 2018, 8:14 pm

Adjoining business AET has appealed the decision to grant the CUP for this project. They argue that the project will impede the use of their own property, in particular by bringing in residents who will complain about noise, odors and industrial operations. The appeal includes some information about AET's plans in the neighborhood, including their acquisition of the Rihm Trucking site at Cleveland and University. Full text of the appeal is available here: https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... h%2B11.pdf

karen nelson
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby karen nelson » March 8th, 2018, 3:53 pm

Interesting, it seemed the City wanted this 2103 Wabash project, because they gave them the CUP, and yet AET says they have been working with the city for some time, so you'd think AET's concerns would have been on their mind, especially because City always likes employers (not sure if truck yards are the highest level of employment, but overall AET I'm sure a real asset to St. Paul.)

And 2103 Wabash is just one block from different zoning, so its not like other residential uses couldn't come the area close to their planned expansion.

Only way that 2103 property could be viable for commercial, not residential uses would be to throw out parking requirements for commercial uses - I believe....

Also I had heard rumors about other developers eyeing up the corner of Cleveland and University, not sure if AET purchase of Rihm put a stop to that.

I guess its a good problem to have multiple uses in consideration for an area

mthieroff
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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby mthieroff » March 16th, 2018, 1:22 pm

The Planning Commission's Zoning Committee voted yesterday 7-0 to deny the rezoning needed for this project. Staff had recommended denial of the application. The staff report is here:
https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/default/fi ... cket...pdf

Mark Thieroff

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Re: 2103 Wabash

Postby seanrichardryan » March 16th, 2018, 3:49 pm

Ridiculous.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.


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