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Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 28th, 2018, 10:43 am
by mattaudio
Jtown wrote:
November 27th, 2018, 4:16 pm
It isn't all that unrealistic to have significant parking facilities near a convention center that is trying to attract statewide conventions, sporting events etc. Going to lose a heck of a lot of more tax revenue if and when conventions choose other metro options.
The City should offer to sell the RiverCenter ramp for someone to buy, operate, rebuild, or redevelop it. Parking is not a legitimate function of government. Convention space is nearly as illegitimate of a public function.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 1:12 pm
by karen nelson
I worry about concrete plazas - they can become forlorn, wind-swept zombie lands if there is not enough people wandering around on them.

The ideal artificial plaza/ park space in a downtown area, in my mind has sufficient space, greenery, and interest to draw people but not too much empty space to look like abondoned industrial zone. (See Mears park), Why do most European plazas look appealing? Is it because they have nice stone pavers? Or is it they filled with people and have destintations, activities?


There's really no natural, environment enhancing part of this plaza, but its covering Shep road, so not loss there. So its main purpose should be to make a pleasant draw for people, activity, unlike a more natural park where protecting nature would be a higher priority.


So the focus should be on activating this plaza area, in all seasons.

The tiers and planned retail/restaurant spaces are a good start. Very appealing connection to downtown and river biking infrastructure with biking centric commercial spot/hub would be great. Kiosks selling things and food would be great. Community, public space for meetings? Music, performance, art spaces?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 5:09 pm
by Anondson
Aecom says the tallest of the four towers, a class-A office building, could be up to 40 stories.

http://www.startribune.com/riverfront-d ... 508344172/

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 9:25 pm
by seanrichardryan

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 8:45 am
by EOst
The packet from yesterday's presentation is here.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 1:29 pm
by HuskyGrad
I really like how this could potentially tie into the river. It reminds me of the Rheinboulevard in Cologne.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... g-8227.jpg

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 4:28 pm
by twincitizen
It’s cool to see such an ambitious proposal but I’m annoyed that anyone can pretend with a straight face that Building 4 (40-story office) is ever going to happen. It’s kinda suspicious that they’re just showing what Ramsey County & St. Paul leaders/chambers of commerce want to see. With no anchor tenant in sight for Building 4 (let alone Building 3, the smaller office building), I hope they change the plan sooner rather than later. Or just be more explicit that Building 4 is entirely speculative and may not be built for 20+ years, or more likely will be additional condos/apts, likely in a tower much shorter than 40 stories

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 4:11 am
by gcm
"Ramsey County hopes to get $40 million in 2020 state bonding money for this planned “land lid” connecting the Mississippi River with downtown St. Paul at Kellogg Boulevard"

Image

[url]https://finance-commerce.com/2019/07/ra ... -downtown/[/ur

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 8:42 am
by mattaudio
So, I realize this plan would involve a stronger connection to the river... but this sure seems like another Kellogg Mall Park. The only thing that I've ever seen activate Kellogg Mall Park is the Winter Carnival... when Rice Park was torn up for work...

It's easy to throw a bunch of people onto a rendering. That doesn't mean people will show up.

Instead of $80 million on this "land lid" why not just spend $8 million improving the existing riverfront?
- Road diet Shepard down to 2-3 lanes in the pinch point between Ontario and Jackson Streets, opening up the part closer to the river to solve this problem: https://goo.gl/maps/CLXBNLmLmv1vk4bz8
- Get some sort of nice vertical circulation with public easement as part of the West/Jail redevelopment.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 10:33 pm
by karen nelson
Thanks, such a great comment and ideas.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 13th, 2019, 1:15 pm
by nBode
side note for a fun before & after of this site, simply switch between eastbound/westbound on Shepard in Streetview.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 15th, 2019, 7:28 am
by EOst
The land lid is also about expanding the developable area on the site. Realigning Shepard away from the river and expanding that riverfront space does not accomplish this.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 15th, 2019, 8:04 am
by mattaudio
Is more developable land really the thing downtown St. Paul needs?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 15th, 2019, 7:29 pm
by Vagueperson
mattaudio wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 8:42 am
- Road diet Shepard down to 2-3 lanes in the pinch point between Ontario and Jackson Streets, opening up the part closer to the river to solve this problem: https://goo.gl/maps/CLXBNLmLmv1vk4bz8
- Get some sort of nice vertical circulation with public easement as part of the West/Jail redevelopment.
I'm not convinced this would be enough to activate the riverfront in this location. It would still be a relatively small space between a busy street and a river.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 15th, 2019, 7:35 pm
by Vagueperson
Why does Kellogg Park fail?
My first thought is because of Kellogg.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 16th, 2019, 7:28 am
by EOst
mattaudio wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 8:04 am
Is more developable land really the thing downtown St. Paul needs?
Downtown has relatively low developer interest to be sure, but a not-insignificant part of that is awkward or poorly-located sites. The Xcel parking lot is across the street from some of the region's largest shelters. The Central Station site is extremely awkwardly shaped and hard to build on. The Wabasha Court site is pretty small (and is effectively being land banked right now). Otherwise in the core of downtown, there are very few good developable sites. Downtown's problem isn't empty lots, it's block after block of giant, ugly, inhumane buildings that aren't going anywhere.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 16th, 2019, 8:15 am
by mattaudio
Yeah, that's my point... creating new "land bridge" sites reduces the demand to redevelop and improve the existing human-hostile land uses downtown.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 16th, 2019, 9:43 am
by bubzki2
Adding a shiny new riverfront would indeed increase usable land supply--but it may also increase the demand aspect by drawing more people/businesses in. St. Paul is so very close to having a desirable destination riverfront, but it just can't get over the hump. IF this works, I'm in favor of it.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 2:31 pm
by EOst

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 4:05 pm
by Anondson
That’s more what I expect in design.