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Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 5:42 pm
by karen nelson
I like the instinct to connect the upper city with the lower river front with terraced destinations - open view to the river, the retail, patios, stairs..but I want to know how bikes get up those stairs....

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 5:56 pm
by SurlyLHT
I think it's smart how Aecom is expanding the footprint across Shepard Road to create more potential for the site. I also personally dislike Shepard Road deeply and love the idea of covering it. The buildings should perhaps connect more with the rest of Downtown St. Paul more however? I'm also skeptic this project will get built, but hopeful.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 6:02 pm
by SurlyLHT
The Pioneer Press has all the details including the presentation.

https://www.twincities.com/2018/11/20/t ... iverfront/

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 6:55 pm
by Silophant
Here's an unlocked Finance & Commerce article as well.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 20th, 2018, 7:24 pm
by John21
This looks fantastic. Hope it comes to fruition.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 21st, 2018, 12:41 pm
by mattaudio
You HAVE to be kidding, St. Paul. First phase is a 1200-1800 stall parking garage. https://www.ramseycounty.us/sites/defau ... FTrcHIaESg

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 21st, 2018, 1:21 pm
by Silophant
There's the St. Paul we know and love.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 21st, 2018, 1:41 pm
by HiawathaGuy
Yeah well, from the Finance & Commerce article also states this: "The parking garage would be privately funded and there would be no request for tax increment financing, he said." If this will be privately funded - and perhaps results in the current end-of-life parking ramp nearby closing, why the hate?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 21st, 2018, 3:37 pm
by Anondson
Iā€™d favor private under-structure parking if it led to some above ground parking structures being replaced.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 21st, 2018, 3:38 pm
by UrsusUrbanicus
Like almost all major cities nationwide, our compact and sustainable cores got sprawled out into oblivion, and it's going to take a while to get that genie back in the bottle. In the meantime, we do have to find a way of getting farther-out populations into the central cities, in order to help them continue as thriving, energetic hubs that can serve as focal points for (and stay dense enough to help fund) transit.

But I get it; this really is a fine line to walk. Stumble off the other side of it, by building too much parking or shoving the transit part off the table (as even some of the nearer-suburban constituencies like to do here), and you're just continuing to encourage the Hugoization of the metro. Is there any indication whether these will at least be built in a fashion that's readily convertible to active uses at some point in the future?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 22nd, 2018, 9:40 am
by BigIdeasGuy
But what place for a large parking ramp than below street level facing a retaining wall and covered by housing, hotel, retail and office space. I get the urbanist ideal of zero parking lots and garages but realistically this is as good as space as any to have a large ramp.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 23rd, 2018, 8:44 am
by mattaudio
This should mean we don't need to rebuild the RiverCenter/Xcel ramp on the cliff next to the Science Museum, correct?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 23rd, 2018, 9:37 am
by alexschief
mattaudio wrote: ā†‘
November 23rd, 2018, 8:44 am
This should mean we don't need to rebuild the RiverCenter/Xcel ramp on the cliff next to the Science Museum, correct?
Yeah, my takeaway is that this should be sold as an excuse to tear down the RiverCenter ramp and put that on the market in the future.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 23rd, 2018, 10:16 am
by mattaudio
A few people who are tangentially connected to St. Paul planning have suggested that sensible idea is not going to happen.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 26th, 2018, 10:57 pm
by Vagueperson
that ramp apparently provides HRA money, and this proposed new ramp would not.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 8:36 am
by alexschief
Vagueperson wrote: ā†‘
November 26th, 2018, 10:57 pm
that ramp apparently provides HRA money
Probably only if someone else pays the bills to maintain it.

Redevelop the lot and the whole city gets money in new property tax.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 3:14 pm
by Vagueperson
oh, I'd like to see that happen for sure.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 4:16 pm
by Jtown
I park in the current River Center Ramp. They just spent six or seven million dollars to put netting in to mitigate any damage from falling chunks of cement given that they didn't get their bonding request to rebuild met this year. The city isn't going to give up that ramp. It isn't all that unrealistic to have significant parking facilities near a convention center that is trying to attract statewide conventions, sporting events etc. Going to lose a heck of a lot of more tax revenue if and when conventions choose other metro options. It's going to be a stretch to see Jail/West site develop as proposed. It isn't any issue of vision it's about the market and if there are actual tenants in mind for this.

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 27th, 2018, 7:06 pm
by BigIdeasGuy
I know that this is going to be the least popular idea ever tossed out on this board but wouldn't it make some sense to use TIF or some other form of public financing to build a large convention center hotel on the outside and above a new parking ramp that ends up replacing the River Center Ramp?

Re: Former West Publishing / County Jail development site

Posted: November 28th, 2018, 3:39 am
by gcm
The last 14 comments are about parking ramps. I'll probably get banned for switching the subject, but while I like the layout of the buildings, the public plaza and how it connects to the river, I'm don't particularly care for randomly placed panels and windows:

Image