Ford Plant Redevelopment [archive - locked]
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
For me, the biggest knock against a simple street grid for me is that it's a bit boring. However, it's the simplest way to get a good block size and have straightforward navigation through an area. Since buildings are generally rectangular, a street grid is also much more likely to encourage the most efficient use of land. I wouldn't say that every street needs to be perfectly straight, but I'd like to see the curving streets be a relatively small minority.
There's a case to be made for trying block sizes that have a different width and length compared to the surrounding neighborhood. Personally, I find the standard St. Paul block size to be just a bit too big, so I'd like them a bit smaller, perhaps closer to the scale in the Merriam Park area (though some of those are probably too small to be economically attractive -- then again, that area commands some pretty high property values). It might be better to go with lot sizes like 40' x 80', which would reduce block depth (shallower front setbacks would be needed, though). I'd probably prefer reducing the length of blocks so they're closer to 440' rather than 660' too.
Like in Merriam Park, the sizes of the blocks could vary somewhat, which might make the area a bit more interesting even if the streets are straight.
I just want to avoid turning the whole area into a big pod that only has a couple ways in or out, and I'd like at least one new east-west street south of Ford Parkway to reduce the heavy car traffic at the Ford and Cleveland intersection -- that's a significant commercial node which should be more pedestrian-focused. Curving streets are the standard for new development everywhere these days, but since developers tend to just focus on their own area of land and don't take a holistic view of the region they're in, their plans often lead to big mistakes that wall neighborhoods off from each other, concentrate traffic onto a few major through streets, and make it virtually impossible to route public transit through the areas in an efficient manner.
Basically, I say the grid should be the standard. I'm willing to accept another layout, but it has to be shown that it still has small blocks, good walkability with fairly simple and direct routings from point to point, and doesn't waste land that could be put to productive use.
There's a case to be made for trying block sizes that have a different width and length compared to the surrounding neighborhood. Personally, I find the standard St. Paul block size to be just a bit too big, so I'd like them a bit smaller, perhaps closer to the scale in the Merriam Park area (though some of those are probably too small to be economically attractive -- then again, that area commands some pretty high property values). It might be better to go with lot sizes like 40' x 80', which would reduce block depth (shallower front setbacks would be needed, though). I'd probably prefer reducing the length of blocks so they're closer to 440' rather than 660' too.
Like in Merriam Park, the sizes of the blocks could vary somewhat, which might make the area a bit more interesting even if the streets are straight.
I just want to avoid turning the whole area into a big pod that only has a couple ways in or out, and I'd like at least one new east-west street south of Ford Parkway to reduce the heavy car traffic at the Ford and Cleveland intersection -- that's a significant commercial node which should be more pedestrian-focused. Curving streets are the standard for new development everywhere these days, but since developers tend to just focus on their own area of land and don't take a holistic view of the region they're in, their plans often lead to big mistakes that wall neighborhoods off from each other, concentrate traffic onto a few major through streets, and make it virtually impossible to route public transit through the areas in an efficient manner.
Basically, I say the grid should be the standard. I'm willing to accept another layout, but it has to be shown that it still has small blocks, good walkability with fairly simple and direct routings from point to point, and doesn't waste land that could be put to productive use.
Mike Hicks
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Architects at Perkins+Will have been running an internal competition for ideas for the Ford plant site, and have 75 entries. A winner is supposed to be selected today:
http://www.startribune.com/firm-asks-ar ... 394216121/
The designs are available here:
http://dlc.perkinswill.com/
http://www.startribune.com/firm-asks-ar ... 394216121/
The designs are available here:
http://dlc.perkinswill.com/
Mike Hicks
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
https://hizeph400.blogspot.com/
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Perhaps I just don't understand them, but all of the shortlist look terrible.
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- IDS Center
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
They are all terrible.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
I really like a lot of them, did y'all download the plans or just look at brief descriptions?
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Wow there are so many this is so fun
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- Rice Park
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Talent Factory and Forward Banks really caught my attention... They're all fun to look at though, some very creative ideas!
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
The Urban Roots proposal with the extensive reuse of the tunnels/mines is pretty cool. Hopefully something happens with them, and they're not just sealed off. (Though probably not an LRT line that runs along East River Road).
Joey Senkyr
[email protected]
[email protected]
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
I know these are submitted by architects, and I know I am just 'reviewing' these ideas with my planner-eyes, but, but, but, these are all horrible if one of these gets to be implemented as-is.
Most submissions didn't seem to consider the nature of surrounding neighborhoods at all. For industrially oriented submissions, freight circulation plans seem too high-level. And why did all these plans cut the potential LRT at the end of the site instead of running it through all the way to Ford Rd?
Most submissions didn't seem to consider the nature of surrounding neighborhoods at all. For industrially oriented submissions, freight circulation plans seem too high-level. And why did all these plans cut the potential LRT at the end of the site instead of running it through all the way to Ford Rd?
Jonathan Ahn, AICP | [email protected]
Personal thoughts and personal opinion only. May include incomplete information.
Personal thoughts and personal opinion only. May include incomplete information.
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Probably because they're completely conceptual and the teams haven't been here or talked extensively to local figures...
Of course original concepts are never perfect.
Of course original concepts are never perfect.
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
They're terrible. But I hope "Mini-Polis" gets built because that would just irk Saint Paulies.
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- Capella Tower
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Here is the presentation given last night on the site's zoning & public realm. https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/default/fi ... _FINAL.pdf There's a lot to discuss, obviously. Overall, not too shabby.
Some media coverage:
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/14/fo ... nneapolis/
http://www.startribune.com/community-ge ... 401200985/
Some media coverage:
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/14/fo ... nneapolis/
http://www.startribune.com/community-ge ... 401200985/
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
I guess this just makes it official then, Highland park is no longer middle class and never will be again. Sad to see really.
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- Capella Tower
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
I'm confused by that statement - this plan has everything to do with built form and public space layout. While I'm nearly positive it won't be the case, there's nothing in that document saying all 4,000 projected residential units can't be subsidized housing. But, adding 2-,3-, 4,000, or whatever number of units to HP - which is already pricey and moving more that way - won't hurt the situation.
But! The city should use as much leverage as possible to encourage or require affordable housing. St Paul should even consider scaling back on the public expenses (>50% of the site is roads or stormwater treatment or parks/fields!!) and using some of the 1) reduction in long-term public costs and 2) slightly larger tax-base of the redevelopment to all help locally fund affordable housing. The city is strongly considering TIF for the site to help pay for all the infrastructure required. The less infrastructure and the higher percentage of property taxes going to the city's general fund rather than a TIF fund means they have a greater ability to give some subsidies.
But! The city should use as much leverage as possible to encourage or require affordable housing. St Paul should even consider scaling back on the public expenses (>50% of the site is roads or stormwater treatment or parks/fields!!) and using some of the 1) reduction in long-term public costs and 2) slightly larger tax-base of the redevelopment to all help locally fund affordable housing. The city is strongly considering TIF for the site to help pay for all the infrastructure required. The less infrastructure and the higher percentage of property taxes going to the city's general fund rather than a TIF fund means they have a greater ability to give some subsidies.
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Median home price in Highland last month: $301k.
Monthly payment on a $301k 30-year loan w/ 20% down: ~$14-1500
Yearly income required for that payment to be "affordable": 60-65k, depending on other expenses
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/12/0 ... ddle-class
Monthly payment on a $301k 30-year loan w/ 20% down: ~$14-1500
Yearly income required for that payment to be "affordable": 60-65k, depending on other expenses
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/12/0 ... ddle-class
[guy thinking emoji]For a household with three people, being middle class means making between about $42,000 and $126,000.
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Isn't that right about the metro median household income? So, how exactly is Highland Park not middle class?Yearly income required for that payment to be "affordable": 60-65k, depending on other expenses
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
F&C Article appears to be unlocked: http://finance-commerce.com/2016/11/st- ... ford-site/Here is the presentation given last night on the site's zoning & public realm. https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/default/fi ... _FINAL.pdf There's a lot to discuss, obviously. Overall, not too shabby.
Some media coverage:
http://www.twincities.com/2016/11/14/fo ... nneapolis/
http://www.startribune.com/community-ge ... 401200985/
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
Competing visions for vacant Ford-plant site set the stage for a lengthy battle
Hoppe and a coalition of a dozen like-minded neighbors worry that the city’s plans to partner with an as-yet unknown developer and create a “sustainable” urban village will overwhelm their street with traffic, while blocking views of the Mississippi River. Even without development there, they say, there’s already too many traffic concerns in the area.
Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
I would tend to agree that there are too many concerns about traffic in the area.
Joey Senkyr
[email protected]
[email protected]
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Re: Ford Twin Cities Assembly Plant Redevelopment
They live in a city. If they want absolute peace and quiet, it's not as though we haven't spent the last 70 years building happy little utopias engineered precisely to their sensitivities (both ambiental and demographic). Move to Mendota Heights or get over it.Hoppe and a coalition of a dozen like-minded neighbors worry that the city’s plans to partner with an as-yet unknown developer and create a “sustainable” urban village will overwhelm their street with traffic, while blocking views of the Mississippi River. Even without development there, they say, there’s already too many traffic concerns in the area.
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