Sibley Plaza Redevelopment [on hold]

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HiawathaGuy
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Sibley Plaza Redevelopment [on hold]

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2014, 10:38 am

I'm happy to see this area get redeveloped. I just wish the building would front West 7th better, and parking either be behind or reduced... It'll be interesting to see if the City asks for that through approvals.

Apartments and retail planned in $50M redevelopment of St. Paul's Sibley Plaza
Sep 17, 2014
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... thyme.html

St. Paul's Sibley Plaza shopping center will be torn down after nearly 60 years to make way for a Fresh Thyme Farmers Markets grocery store, a fitness center and 120 apartments, according to plans released by the property owner.

Sibley Plaza owner Paster Enterprises is partnering with Bader Development on the $50 million mixed-use project at the West Seventh Street property, which Paster has been contemplating for months. [...]

Image

mattaudio
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby mattaudio » September 17th, 2014, 10:56 am

That's all-new? With a giant parking lot along W 7th? Come on developers you can do better.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby twincitizen » September 17th, 2014, 11:39 am

I'd hope the developers work up a few schematics and think about they'd fit in with various transit scenarios (bus on 7th out front, LRT or BRT in "Riverview Corridor", etc.)

Without making excuses for the plan shown above, the context of this area is already less than urban. I could forgive the parking lot out front if it was broken up a little more, and had strong pedestrian connections within and through the site. For transit and walkability's sake, I'd hope you could walk/bike north-south through the site, between 7th St and the rail corridor behind the buildings. It looks like that may be accommodated in the plan. A step further would be to add liner buildings along 7th. If they're trying to attract an LA Fitness type "medium box", then it's very likely that the plan will include surface parking. Rightfully, we can and should attack them for "overparking" the site, but without information on the square footage of retail planned, the number of spaces provided for the retail and the residential components, it's a little early to critique the plan just yet.

Will it stay or will it go?
The gas station at the corner of 7th & Davern? (Hopefully going)
The existing apartments on Davern behind Sibley Plaza? (Hopefully staying)

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby MNdible » September 17th, 2014, 12:00 pm

Based on that picture, I'm pretty certain that the eastern building in the existing Sibley Plaza is staying as-is (perhaps a little window dressing to freshen it up).

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby Wedgeguy » September 17th, 2014, 12:21 pm

MNdible wrote:Based on that picture, I'm pretty certain that the eastern building in the existing Sibley Plaza is staying as-is (perhaps a little window dressing to freshen it up).
If not,they sure look like they are using alot of the old SP current foot print.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby mamundsen » September 17th, 2014, 12:40 pm

The article says that all current buildings/tenants will be removed. Then it says some may return, but nothing is signed yet.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby mulad » September 17th, 2014, 1:26 pm

Current site, for reference:


nate
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby nate » September 17th, 2014, 2:05 pm

That's a strange little corner of St Paul. Lots of apartments, light industry, an airport parking lot/parking ramp that seems to be consistently full full, and strip malls. Mostly developed in the 1970s, and very isolated from the rest of the city. I don't see a whole lot of appeal for living there, but apparently thousands and thousands of people do.

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Anondson
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby Anondson » September 17th, 2014, 2:09 pm

This area is under severe height limits too, doesn't it?

fehler
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby fehler » September 17th, 2014, 2:10 pm

Hate to start an Uptown-like argument, but is this area considered "Highland Park"? I know someone who lives in the apartments across from Sibley Plaza, and she insists she lives in Highland Park, which confused the heck out of me when I tried to find her place once.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby mattaudio » September 17th, 2014, 2:14 pm

St. Paul has much larger neighborhoods than Minneapolis.
IIRC St. Paul has 17 and Mpls has 81.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby mamundsen » September 17th, 2014, 2:19 pm

fehler wrote:Hate to start an Uptown-like argument, but is this area considered "Highland Park"? I know someone who lives in the apartments across from Sibley Plaza, and she insists she lives in Highland Park, which confused the heck out of me when I tried to find her place once.
Yes this is part of Highland Park. My wife's parents live a few blocks west of Sibley Plaza along the Ford spur. This area is actually very close to the business district on ford pkwy.

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MN Fats
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby MN Fats » September 17th, 2014, 2:19 pm

fehler wrote:Hate to start an Uptown-like argument, but is this area considered "Highland Park"? I know someone who lives in the apartments across from Sibley Plaza, and she insists she lives in Highland Park, which confused the heck out of me when I tried to find her place once.
Technically it is:

Image

But when I think of Highland I usually think of Highland Village and the immediate surrounding area, not 7th street.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby Tcmetro » September 17th, 2014, 2:26 pm

I'm not a huge fan of the parking lot in front of the building, but it's nice to see some more development here. The neighborhood is perhaps a strange choice for new development, the surrounding area is primarily low-rent with a high proportion of immigrants and airport workers.

In any case, it's a decent proposal.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby MNdible » September 17th, 2014, 2:28 pm

mamundsen wrote:The article says that all current buildings/tenants will be removed. Then it says some may return, but nothing is signed yet.
Yes, but I think the reporter got it wrong. If you compare the google maps to the presented image, the buildings on the east look basically identical. The tenants may get booted out, but I'd bet you a dollar those buildings are staying.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby twincitizen » September 17th, 2014, 2:39 pm

Much better/wider rendering here that shows the full site:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... n-includes
http://finance-commerce.com/2014/09/sib ... velopment/

The one above looks like it got 4:3'ed and both sides chopped off.

Image

It appears my above wishes will come true: the corner gas station is gone, while the existing/affordable apartments behind the development will stay.

With the full scope of the development in view, I doubt they plan to reuse any existing buildings. The building on the far right is almost certainly an LA Fitness or similar. It even looks like LA Fitness in generic form. The big-box-ish building next to that sort of evokes the architecture of the existing buildings, but I doubt it's actual reuse.

The story has quotes from the developer about "starting over" and such. There is no mention of re-use whatsoever.
The developers studied a more modest face-lift that would preserve some of the existing structure -- which spans two buildings and a gas station -- but decided against it. Instead, everything will be replaced.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 17th, 2014, 2:40 pm

I don't know, I can't imagine why 7th Street Tavern (formerly Chammp's) would be forced to leave if that building weren't being demolished? They've been there forever. I do think everything will be demolished - or at least I'd like to hope that. This whole area could use some fresh life. We frequent this area often, for 7th Street Tavern, etc. I've long thought it could use a jolt. The additional residential just south of this lot on the east side of 7th over the past decade has been fun to watch. I hope the developer takes queue from that - as I think it works very well for this area of the city.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby woofner » September 17th, 2014, 7:26 pm

Do gyms typically restrict entrance/exit to one point? Do they have any compelling reason for the parking to be between the building and the street? Ultimately the configuration may be decided by the triangular shape of the site (which they've made no attempt to express architecturally, thank god).

Also, has anyone ever made reference to the Home Croft neighborhood?
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Anondson
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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby Anondson » September 17th, 2014, 8:26 pm

Couldn't possibly wait until the Riverview is finished being studied, certainly this site has tremendous potential for TOD around a station if LRT is decided... This is nearly missing that mark.

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Re: Sibley Plaza Redo

Postby seanrichardryan » September 17th, 2014, 9:32 pm

Well, it's Bader development. Their last project , the Eclipse on excelsior, was phased. Once the demand was seen, they developed the remaining site. It seems a good possibility here.
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