Allianz Field and Snelling-Midway Development

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VAStationDude
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby VAStationDude » December 8th, 2016, 9:17 pm

http://www.twincities.com/2016/12/08/gr ... ion-snags/

Supervalu wants the Rainbow open to shut hyvee out of the Midway. Allowing Rainbow out of its lease would trigger significant lease discounts for neighboring tenants who count on an anchor driving business traffic.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby cooperrez » December 9th, 2016, 7:49 am

I don't understand this reasoning, “HyVee would like to go in there, and that would just kill the Cub,” Livingston said. “It’s cheaper to have a near-empty store than have Hy-Vee come in there and kick the crap out of you. You don’t keep a store like that open unless it’s to keep you from getting your butt kicked by a competitor. … This is obviously a defensive move.”

If the stadium goes in there, won't that mean that no other supermarket would be able go in that same spot? You'd think Supervalu would be in favor of the stadium taking up that spot so Hy-Vee can't move in.

I understand the discounts for the neighboring tenants issue, but not the "defensive move" by Supervalu.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby nBode » December 9th, 2016, 8:10 am

I *think* it's because Hy-Vee would be less likely to open a store nearby with a direct competitor (Cub) next door. But if the Cub had to close, it would open the door for Hy-Vee to locate nearby and take over the market in that area.

Now, I don't know what's to stop Hy-Vee from doing that, regardless of if that Cub stays open or not.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby cooperrez » December 9th, 2016, 8:26 am

But Hy-Vee wouldn't be able to take over the Rainbow spot if the stadium is sitting on top of it. There'd be no spot left.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby VAStationDude » December 9th, 2016, 8:44 am

I'd guess the rainbow lease prohibits rk midway from selling or leasing their property to a grocery competitor. If rainbow agrees to relinquish their lease rights hyvee could conceivably set up a store along Pascal. The tenants in the same complex as rainbow closer to Pascal would receive a substantial lease discount after rainbow closes making the entire property less valuable and leaving an opening for hyvee. My understanding is urban cub stores are among the most profitable super valu properties so they're understandably cautious about the midway cub.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby ProspectPete » December 9th, 2016, 9:11 am

I wonder what the point is of having a ceremonial ground breaking then with so many uncertainties.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby cooperrez » December 9th, 2016, 10:58 am

VAStationDude wrote:I'd guess the rainbow lease prohibits rk midway from selling or leasing their property to a grocery competitor. If rainbow agrees to relinquish their lease rights hyvee could conceivably set up a store along Pascal. The tenants in the same complex as rainbow closer to Pascal would receive a substantial lease discount after rainbow closes making the entire property less valuable and leaving an opening for hyvee. My understanding is urban cub stores are among the most profitable super valu properties so they're understandably cautious about the midway cub.
Where on Pascal would this new supermarket go? None of the proposed development plans seem to have space for a supermarket. A Hy-Vee would basically need a footprint about the same size as the stadium itself. That just doesn't fit in with the proposed development at all. And couldn't Supervalu and RK Midway come up with a new lease agreement that prevents the possibility of a Hy-Vee on this super-block?

I understand why Supervalu would keep the beleaguered Rainbow site to hold off Hy-Vee pre-stadium, but considering the stadium development plans, it should be a good way for them to permanently remove that land as an entry point for Hy-Vee in Midway. I guess the piece-meal development of the superblock is more of the road-block here, as this source from the article says, "The complications with co-tenancies and lease languages is just staggering." Sounds like the lease agreements and all that crap are as ugly as the site itself.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby VAStationDude » December 9th, 2016, 11:56 am

Development plans are far from certain even if the stadium is built. Someone with more knowledge of the long term planning process could tell us if it's possible to block big box development on the remaining portion of the rk midway properties.

I do agree the moving parts are probably the bigger barrier. As much as I would like to see this stadium proposal fail, the city and big Mac will probably get it done. Super valu and rk midway have a price. It may be more than the city and Mac expected but there is an amount of money they'll take.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby cooperrez » December 9th, 2016, 1:02 pm

Yep, the specific plans aren't set, but the vision for the area is pretty clear. I'm pretty certain big box retailers aren't part of that vision.

Earlier reporting from I think, Fiftyfive.one/Brian Quarstad, mentioned an impasse on the price of the property also. That makes sense that there would be some back and forth on the final price.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby seanrichardryan » December 9th, 2016, 1:31 pm

The new FAR for the 'superblock' essentially prohibits stand alone big-box development.
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby cooperrez » December 12th, 2016, 2:30 pm

https://twitter.com/MNUFC/status/808407100053397504

Anyone at the groundbreaking ceremony?

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby BigIdeasGuy » December 12th, 2016, 9:28 pm

I wasn't at the groundbreaking today but the new video the MNUFC put out today of the stadium was amazing. It's going to be a massive net positive for all parties.

Here is my current read on the ongoing redevelopment saga. I have zero inside information so I'm just taking an educated guess based off what I've read
1. All parties involved (City, Mayor, MNUFC, RK Midway, Prime Therapeutics, etc.) with the exception of SuperValu want to get a deal done for any number of different reasons.
2. SuperValu is wanting to protect it's Cub store at the corner of Pascal and St. Anthony from any additional competition understandably and are willing to lose a lot of money running the Rainbow store to do so.
3. RK Midway understandably isn't wanting to take a possibly large revenue loss on breaking Rainbow's lease and, I would guess, are most likely demanding the MNUFC pay the amount to cover any lost revenue for the land they need to build the stadium.
4. MNUFC, specifically McGuire, understandably aren't wanting to spend any more than they have to for the land to they need for the stadium. I would guess they are wanting to pay for the land and not the lost revenue. Thus the current stalemate.
5. Now here is where it gets interesting and could potentially either make or break this whole thing. We know that Prime Therapeutics has shown interest in moving their corporate headquarters to Midway building somewhere between 400,000 and 700,000 sq ft of new office space. According to the Master Plan their office space would be at the corner of Snelling and University and then continue down Snelling towards 94.
6. At the northeast corner of the site (University and Pascal) the Master Plan clearly calls for a 42,000 sq ft grocery store to anchor 310 apartment units, which would be ideal for HyVee. Now I personally very much doubt that any redevelopment would be the cards, much less a building of that scale, unless Prime Therapeutics or another large anchor tenant decides to come into Midway.
7. This is why I think Prime is next big piece that needs to fall into place, and hopefully soon. They decide to come in and RK Midway is much more likely to cut a deal because a whole lot of new office space and any additional resulting redevelopment would more than make up any lost revenue from breaking the Rainbow lease. RK Midway isn't going to want to box themselves in either and make a deal with SuperValu prevent any grocery store from coming into any redevelopment.
8. If Prime stays in the suburbs that means the chances of a new grocery store at University and Pascal any time soon are likely down the drain taking pressure off of SuperValu and putting pressure on MNUFC to step up. It's very possible that all parties have additional inside info that Prime has made a decision that the public doesn't know about yet as well.
9. There are clearly multiple ways this thing gets resolved but it all involves one party making the next big move. Whether that's the Port Authority stepping in, either MNUFC or RK Midway blinking/cutting a deal, Prime coming in, SuperValu putting the community ahead of their bottom line (not going to happen I know).

I hope all of that made sense.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Rube Dali » December 13th, 2016, 9:53 am

BigIdeasGuy wrote:I wasn't at the groundbreaking today but the new video the MNUFC put out today of the stadium was amazing. It's going to be a massive net positive for all parties.

Here is my current read on the ongoing redevelopment saga. I have zero inside information so I'm just taking an educated guess based off what I've read
2. SuperValu is wanting to protect it's Cub store at the corner of Pascal and St. Anthony from any additional competition understandably and are willing to lose a lot of money running the Rainbow store to do so.

SNIP
It won't just be SuperValu that would be affected if a potential HyVee goes up on Pascal. Aldi(1/2 mile away on Lexington), Target(2 blocks away) and Walmart(In the same complex as Cub and whose backside abuts the proposed HyVee(If it is indeed Hyvee)) would all suffer losses in grocery sales as much as Cub would(Although Target and Walmart have other departments to lean on, thus lessening the losses).
Buildings, what buildings?

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby MNdible » December 13th, 2016, 9:59 am

I seem to recollect that that particular WalMart has a limited grocery selection based on the terms of their lease (as dictated by Cub). But yes, the point still stands.

The typical Hy-Vee store is 90k SF, and I'm really not sure if they can scale things down to less than half that size, so I'm thinking there would have to be some pretty significant reworking of the master plan to squeeze them in.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Jacobean » December 13th, 2016, 10:09 am

BigIdeasGuy wrote: 6. At the northeast corner of the site (University and Pascal) the Master Plan clearly calls for a 42,000 sq ft grocery store to anchor 310 apartment units, which would be ideal for HyVee.
That is much smaller than the large format HyVee has been pursuing in the Twin Cities thus far (upwards of 90,000 sf, plus pads for the gas station). That said, I do recall seeing an article where a HyVee executive mentioned they would consider doing some smaller format stores, and they do seem to be targeting Cub Foods pretty aggressively. I also can't think of any other grocers that would want to locate in this submarket that don't already have a store nearby.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby jtoemke » January 13th, 2017, 1:28 pm


Didier
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » January 17th, 2017, 10:17 pm

Another story on the Port Authority's involvement: http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-port ... 411009435/

Can someone smarter than me explain what this means? Is the Port Authority basically buying the strip mall and razing it, or is everything way more complicated than that? The last two articles didn't clarify much.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby nate » January 19th, 2017, 7:33 am

I don't claim to be smarter than you, but it reads to me that conflicting lease agreements, etc were in place which were slowing down the process to the point that stadium construction would be delayed. The Port Authority entering the process must be working to smooth these legal items over. At what cost? I don't know.

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » January 19th, 2017, 9:45 am

Yeah, because a previous story indicated the holdup was largely around Rainbow not wanting to break their lease, which was apparently vital to securing the land. But this article didn't reference that.

Like I said, I don't really understand what's going on here, but as best I can tell, the Port Authority is taking over these leases so it can start breaking them and start selling the land to the team? Does the Port Authority have some sort of hammer here that RK Midway does not?

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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » January 30th, 2017, 10:04 am

This has some more information about the Rainbow situation: https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2017 ... ccer-plans

And here's an explanation about the potential HyVee concern, which was less clear in previous stories:
One possible concern for SuperValu, which owns the Rainbow store, is that strip malls often have noncompete clauses. Despite the city’s plans for redeveloping the strip mall into a mixed-use complex, if the Rainbow closes, a grocery competitor could theoretically open up a location that would compete with the Cub across the street.
Finally, and unrelated, Charlie Walters says that Delta Air Lines could be in play for naming rights at the stadium. Delta formerly sponsored the NBA stadium in Salt Lake City, another hub, but that ended in 2006. As far as I can tell, Delta doesn't have another major stadium, though American Airlines and Air Canada both sponsor NBA/NHL arenas, so it seems reasonable enough that Delta might be interested in this one.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/01/28/ch ... -boudreau/


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