Allianz Field and Snelling-Midway Development

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Nathan
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Nathan » February 24th, 2016, 12:24 am

Totally... I can't believe they were offering Minneapolis all that and didn't. I am a MInneapolis voter who would have approved it. If they are working to transform Midway I can't imagine what they would have tried to accomplish with Royalston.

OH WELL!!! I'm going to love the excuse to go to what could be the best new urban neighborhood in the cities!

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby nate » February 24th, 2016, 10:28 am

The Minneapolis vs St Paul conversation is kind of tiring to me, because the Midway is very well-connected to many parts of Minneapolis. It is 20 minutes on the Green Line from Nicollet to Snelling, and hardly a 10 minute drive on I-94. The U of M is much more conveniently accessed from Midway than it is from most neighborhoods in Minneapolis.

A perception seems to exist that Midway is a far-off and exotic land; the reality is it's another part of the core which looks set to make an enormous leap in urban form in the coming years. That's a win for everyone no matter which city it occurs in.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Didier » February 24th, 2016, 10:56 am

In regards to the Minneapolis site, I thought it had potential to be a win-win. The stadium would capture the downtown "energy" and be close to transit, while the overall redevelopment could totally transform an armpit of downtown while also taking advantage of the existing big-event infrastructure we've already paid for. That said, I don't think Midway is a bad location, and as things progress it ultimately might be better. A major benefit to the Farmer's Market site was going to be access to LRT, but at this point who knows when the Southwest line opens? Without it, the whole development would be somewhat handicapped, at least early on.

Anyway, the renderings are supposed to come out at 2:30 today. I've heard rumblings that the initial design might start at 18,000 but be expandable. That could also mean that it has 18,000 seats and then a standing-room section for the supporters groups.

Based on the public plans so far, the design could be similar to Red Bull Arena in New Jersey (below), though RBA seats 25,000 and cost $200 million.

Image

The drawings could also be interpreted to be similar to Sporting Park, which also cost $200 million.

Image

I'm cautiously optimistic it will be better than both, though. The team has been giving hints to a modern stadium more similar to newer European stadiums than newer MLS stadiums. Curiously, one of the countries they references was Romania, and here's a 30,000-seat Romanian stadium built in 2011.

Image

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby VacantLuxuries » February 24th, 2016, 11:00 am

Another opportunity will come along for West Loop. If Hennepin County takes the initiative on bringing down the freeway viaducts that close it off from the city, it'll happen sooner rather than later.

This is a slam dunk for Midway and if it had been passed up, we likely would not have seen another proposal of this magnitude come along for the bus site, let alone the shopping center.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby mattaudio » February 24th, 2016, 11:01 am

I don't think the Mpls vs St. Paul comparison is to say that Midway is far from Minneapolis. But rather regarding the fact that they are different political units, different cities and counties, and therefore it's interesting to compare what Minneapolis refused and why, and why St. Paul was so eager to make it work.

Another point to consider: While I'm very pleased with how this stadium proposal will transform a deadzone into a real neighborhood, it makes me wonder -- why couldn't we build a street grid and redevelop brownfield and big box superblocks *without* a stadium deal? What does the stadium deal bring to the table, that wouldn't otherwise be there in a stadium-less development proposal. I'm still of the persuasion that a stadium is generally more of a bad neighbor than a good neighbor (though a 20k seat stadium is a better neighbor than a 70k seat stadium). But look to the Ford Site, or even the majority of suburban New Urbanism sites - they languish and struggle to get off the ground. If there's value in a stadium proposal, it's that it accelerates the timetable and makes things happen faster than would happen on a site without a stadium. Thoughts?

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby seanrichardryan » February 24th, 2016, 11:06 am

RK Midway was already in the process of breaking up their super block before the stadium deal came along.
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby HuskyGrad » February 24th, 2016, 11:31 am

Image

I've been a fan of this design from Basra, Iraq.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Wedgeguy » February 24th, 2016, 11:49 am

mattaudio wrote:I don't think the Mpls vs St. Paul comparison is to say that Midway is far from Minneapolis. But rather regarding the fact that they are different political units, different cities and counties, and therefore it's interesting to compare what Minneapolis refused and why, and why St. Paul was so eager to make it work.

Another point to consider: While I'm very pleased with how this stadium proposal will transform a deadzone into a real neighborhood, it makes me wonder -- why couldn't we build a street grid and redevelop brownfield and big box superblocks *without* a stadium deal? What does the stadium deal bring to the table, that wouldn't otherwise be there in a stadium-less development proposal. I'm still of the persuasion that a stadium is generally more of a bad neighbor than a good neighbor (though a 20k seat stadium is a better neighbor than a 70k seat stadium). But look to the Ford Site, or even the majority of suburban New Urbanism sites - they languish and struggle to get off the ground. If there's value in a stadium proposal, it's that it accelerates the timetable and makes things happen faster than would happen on a site without a stadium. Thoughts?
Those parcels of land have been talked about since I lived in St. Paul in the early 90's. When they were doing studies for what could happen once the green line was built, the grid taking place of the shopping mall really made a lot of sense. I have a hard time looking at the stadium as a bad neighbor. I see the stadium as a draw to get people to think about the midway the same way they think of Grand Ave. Given the right mix of retail, office and hotel there should be plenty to make this area successful. The green line and A line only help to make it easier to get to this area. If things work like the proposal with the green space and grid, I look for this to become a very desirable area. Remember, you have 4 colleges with in a 2 mile radius and that is a lot of student and faculty that will find it convenient to get to. Also if the office space fills and we see other office proposals, I see it only helping the area to prosper.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby mattaudio » February 24th, 2016, 12:00 pm

Agreed. Look at that parking lot!

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Mikey » February 24th, 2016, 12:31 pm

I don't think it stadiums themselves per say that jump start redevelopment. It's just "Big Projects" in general. Somebody has to take that first big step and break the logjam. Stadiums work well (if done right) because it's a big, gov't backed project that throw out the usual rules of slooooow progress and change
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Didier » February 24th, 2016, 2:33 pm

Periscope of the stadium unveiling: https://www.periscope.tv/w/1vAGRjqRDaZGl

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Didier » February 24th, 2016, 2:41 pm

I was going to post a picture of Allianz Arena earlier today but figured that was too far fetched. Turns out that is one of the main influences, apparently.

(Hard to see the pictures on the video)

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seamonster
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby seamonster » February 24th, 2016, 2:49 pm

All the pics here: https://twitter.com/MNUnitedFC#

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby HuskyGrad » February 24th, 2016, 2:50 pm

Image

The aerial.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby lordmoke » February 24th, 2016, 2:52 pm

And Populous totally kills it again. Very cool.

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Nathan
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Nathan » February 24th, 2016, 2:58 pm

Just. Ecstatic. So. Beautiful. Simple, dynamic, a new landmark for sure.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby Didier » February 24th, 2016, 2:59 pm

Talking about making all of the streets curbless, and pedestrian only on event days. Lots of emphasis on the pedestrian nature.

No timeline for the build out, though. When it opens in 2018, they hope to have the stadium, the two green spaces, at least some of the street and sidewalk infrastructure. Build out could be as much as 10 years, in part depending on current leases. Not building spec office space. United Properties named as an interested development partner.

When asked about changing LRT platform to address large crowds, mayor says they don't know yet.

McGuire says says stadium is now at least $150 million, which is separate from the other developments. Capacity could reach as much as 23,500 with standing room.

Coleman confirms the asks to the legislature are: property tax off the books, sales tax on materials, state liquor license.

I believe they said goal of February 2018 opening.
Last edited by Didier on February 24th, 2016, 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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seamonster
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby seamonster » February 24th, 2016, 3:18 pm

Top banner headline on Pioneer Press...not covered by Strib.

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby LakeCharles » February 24th, 2016, 3:22 pm

That looks great.

I guess I'm one that finds this location a better outcome for the metro area as a whole. And yeah, Hodges isn't the mayor of the metro area, so she should be looking out for her city above the others, but overall I am very happy with this arrangement. Plus this area will be BRT and LRT connected from day one, whereas the Minneapolis site would have not been BRT connected for the foreseeable future and LRT connected in 2021 maybe?

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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium

Postby jw138 » February 24th, 2016, 3:42 pm

LakeCharles wrote:I guess I'm one that finds this location a better outcome for the metro area as a whole.
I couldn't agree more. We need to think more about the "Twin Cities" than "Minneapolis vs St Paul".


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