848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

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Vagueperson
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Location: Payne-Phalen, St. Paul

848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby Vagueperson » November 30th, 2016, 7:01 am

http://www.bulletin-news.com/articles/2 ... ng-hotspot

Three developers are looking at the huge HRA lot between Ward 6 and Kendall's Ace Hardware.

The developers vying for the parcel are:
- Project for Pride and Living, (40-60 units and 1/2 first floor commercial)
- Commonwealth Development (30-40 units and no commercial)
- a partnership between Peter Brodd and Schafer Richardson construction companies. (~100 units and commercial first floor)

The lot is being positioned as between a commercial main street (Payne Ave) and a high quality bikeway (the Bruce Vento Trail). The highest building being proposed would be 4 stories, which is he same height as the Phalen Senior Apartments just down the street at 635 Phalen.

EOst
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Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
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Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby EOst » November 30th, 2016, 11:23 am

So much positive momentum in this area already. I'd love to see some money put into the design of whatever's built here; the neighborhood could really use a good gateway, especially with the likely(?) Payne Ave historic district coming.

Vagueperson
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Posts: 298
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:13 am
Location: Payne-Phalen, St. Paul

Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby Vagueperson » November 30th, 2016, 4:42 pm

Can you tell me more about the potential "historic district" designation? I'm on the district council, and we haven't been hearing or talking about this. Sort of worries me if it would lead to major development restrictions.

EOst
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Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby EOst » November 30th, 2016, 5:30 pm

A historic district for Payne has been talked about for a long time from what I understand, though I don't know if there's any work going on at the HPC right now to create one. This ESNDC plan tacitly endorses one, which is discussed a little more thoroughly in pp. 43-4 and 59 of this historic survey. I expect any district would mostly just protect the existing older structures, not create major restrictions on new structures--and at any rate, it would be pretty small (see that map on p.59 above).

Vagueperson
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Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:13 am
Location: Payne-Phalen, St. Paul

Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby Vagueperson » November 30th, 2016, 7:38 pm

I'm a huge fan of those Lunning Wende documents, but I didn't see anything about a historic district there.

I had also see the other document but never looked at the maps. The surprising part for me was page 58!

EOst
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Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
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Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby EOst » November 30th, 2016, 8:33 pm

You're right, that's the wrong document. Look at this one, which lays out design guidelines which "derive from the historic building context of the late 19th century commercial buildings, particularly within the area of Payne Avenue from Whitall Street to Lawson Avenue." It argues that "it is critical to preserve and, where possible, return buildings to their original construction character." I don't know that it uses the words "historic district" once, but it's not too far either.

Vagueperson
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Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:13 am
Location: Payne-Phalen, St. Paul

Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby Vagueperson » November 30th, 2016, 9:08 pm

I would hope that is the sort of work a "historic district" would lead to.
My favorite document from that bunch is the "Walkable Town Center." I'm currently trying to convince folks that we should revive a sub-neighborhood name: Arlington Hills, with boundaries at Edgerton, Maryland, Arcade, and Phalen Blvd. It's close to the old Arlington Hills Addition on the plat map, though it's about twice as big as the "town center" proposed in the document above. I'd love to see this section turned to all T2 zoning (Arcade already has it). This would lead to a denser section of housing between two walkable main streets with decent transit. Arcade needs work, but it is getting a resurfacing in 2022, I think, and I hear the city is favorable to lane reduction. That could mean more on-street parking, or my preference would be bike lanes.

EOst
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Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
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Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby EOst » December 1st, 2016, 10:20 am

I suspect that much of Saint Paul would be better off with more common sub-neighborhood names. The district council neighborhoods are convenient and easy to remember, but they don't leave a lot of room for nuance (and they're huge!). We've been doing something similar in our part of the North End, though we don't have the benefit of a historic name like yours.

I really hope Arcade can get a 4-3, hopefully even sooner than that. Just an obvious example of a street that's been choked by engineers and traffic flow. It sounds like we might be having a similar conversation about Rice Street before too long, though that battle will be very uphill.

Vagueperson
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Posts: 298
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:13 am
Location: Payne-Phalen, St. Paul

Re: 848 Payne Ave Apartments Project

Postby Vagueperson » June 26th, 2020, 10:54 am

Looks like this project is finally going to get started. $15M project.


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