Southdale Area Development - Edina

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Anondson
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » September 7th, 2018, 8:40 am

The Lifetime Fitness at Southdale Center looks like it actually will have significant separation from the Hennepin Service Center wing of the mall. I assumed it was going to share a wall like JCPenney did. But that space separating the building is also wider than a standard utility corridor.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » December 6th, 2018, 3:11 pm

Anyone know the details about this upcoming France Ave bridge work?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... index.html

It says there will be sidewalk and accessibility improvements. Pedestrian and bike access across this bridge is so terrible it should be a source of shame for the city, county, and state. They are so bad that anything is an improvement. But I’d still like to see exactly what’s in store.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » December 7th, 2018, 1:59 am

Hah. Last time they were here they "improved" the bridge by shutting off access to the east sidewalk. (I believe because there wasn't space for that proper ramps on that tiny porkchop at the southeast corner.) Hope this will be better, like properly widening the sidewalks. And removing the porkchop -- dare to dream.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » December 7th, 2018, 2:01 am

Anondson wrote:
September 7th, 2018, 8:40 am
The Lifetime Fitness at Southdale Center looks like it actually will have significant separation from the Hennepin Service Center wing of the mall. I assumed it was going to share a wall like JCPenney did. But that space separating the building is also wider than a standard utility corridor.
Really don't understand why this project has a 500 ft setback if it isn't even really integrated with the mall *or* reusing the JC Penney structure. (I had assumed it was just a significant redo of JCP before I saw it come down.)

They should have just put it along York. Could have also allowed them to pull the ring road farther in and improve queuing space at the signal at "68th"

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » December 7th, 2018, 9:05 am

Anondson wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 3:11 pm
Anyone know the details about this upcoming France Ave bridge work?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... index.html

It says there will be sidewalk and accessibility improvements. Pedestrian and bike access across this bridge is so terrible it should be a source of shame for the city, county, and state. They are so bad that anything is an improvement. But I’d still like to see exactly what’s in store.
Why is there not pedestrian bridge connecting Strachauer Park and the Heritage Rd / Barrie Rd multifamily area south of 62? And why not a ped connection between Madison Park (Richfield) and Grass Lake (Minneapolis)? It seems like we lack good bike/ped-only connections across 62.

That said, street bridges absolutely need to have good connectivity across urban freeways (if we allow those urban freeways to continue to exist, which I dunno about that). Penn and Portland were completely redecked with the Crosstown project, yet they are still dangerous and human-hostile back-of-curb sidewalks squished on a few unprotected feet of concrete next to speeding traffic. There's absolutely no space or accommodation for bike lanes, which create major gaps in the bike network (Portland). We don't even get new-build bridges right... 46th St was rebuilt with the Crosstown project and didn't have enough space for bike lanes when they were installed along the rest of the corridor a a few years ago. Franklin also seems like a missed opportunity with the current 35W project.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby DanPatchToget » December 7th, 2018, 8:32 pm

Anondson wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 3:11 pm
Anyone know the details about this upcoming France Ave bridge work?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/projec ... index.html

It says there will be sidewalk and accessibility improvements. Pedestrian and bike access across this bridge is so terrible it should be a source of shame for the city, county, and state. They are so bad that anything is an improvement. But I’d still like to see exactly what’s in store.
While they're at it, make crossing 494 along France Avenue not a suicide mission. Did it once on my bike and will never try that again.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 7th, 2018, 8:41 pm

mattaudio wrote:Why is there not pedestrian bridge connecting Strachauer Park and the Heritage Rd / Barrie Rd multifamily area south of 62? And why not a ped connection between Madison Park (Richfield) and Grass Lake (Minneapolis)? It seems like we lack good bike/ped-only connections across 62.
The Greater Southdale District Plan implementation actions, section 4.2 Urban Design, item 4 (p152) says:

“Investigate the technical and cost feasibility of a green roof/LID structure over Highway 62 and assess potential redevelopment opportunities.”

… as a Medium Term goal.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 7th, 2018, 8:52 pm

DanPatchToget wrote:While they're at it, make crossing 494 along France Avenue not a suicide mission. Did it once on my bike and will never try that again.
Sounds about like the time I took a 150cc scooter on Hwy 77 across the river to Eagan, and took my life in my hands. Horrific.

France & 494 is Bloomington, not Edina, but I know that Edina’s transportation planner has discussed that area with Bloomington & MNDOT about potential improvements for cars.

I thought I read something here recently about a (Met Council?) grant for extending the bike lanes on the east side of France from south of 494 to points further north? Not sure if it would cross 494.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » December 8th, 2018, 4:31 am

Multimodal wrote:
December 7th, 2018, 8:52 pm
France & 494 is Bloomington, not Edina, but I know that Edina’s transportation planner has discussed that area with Bloomington & MNDOT about potential improvements for cars.
Although I wish Bloomington would step up on this, I don't really expect them to. I asked repeatedly about filling the literally 100' sidewalk gap by SuperAmerica and they didn't bite.

Although the interchange itself is not in Edina, I think the city could lead on setting a serious precedent for what a future France Avenue looks like through the Southdale area -- almost the entirety of this section is in Edina, with it basically ending at American Blvd. It would make it more realistic for Bloomington to support carrying through an Edina section for those last few blocks.

Multi-way boulevard, substantial plantings, and cycletrack would all be good ingredients. I also think Edina should be pushing the County hard for not more than four travel lanes (2 in each direction). So much of the traffic is simply turning right, the additional lanes offer little value.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 8th, 2018, 7:05 am

sdho wrote:Multi-way boulevard, substantial plantings, and cycletrack would all be good ingredients. I also think Edina should be pushing the County hard for not more than four travel lanes (2 in each direction).
I agree. In fact it echoes some of the (radical?) comments I made on the Greater Southdale District (GSD) Plan’s transportation implementation section. The whole plan is on next week’s Planning Commission agenda. Here are my brief comments:

https://edina.novusagenda.com/AgendaPub ... temID=5756

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby SixOneTwo » December 10th, 2018, 3:39 pm

sdho wrote:
December 7th, 2018, 2:01 am
Anondson wrote:
September 7th, 2018, 8:40 am
The Lifetime Fitness at Southdale Center looks like it actually will have significant separation from the Hennepin Service Center wing of the mall. I assumed it was going to share a wall like JCPenney did. But that space separating the building is also wider than a standard utility corridor.
Really don't understand why this project has a 500 ft setback if it isn't even really integrated with the mall *or* reusing the JC Penney structure. (I had assumed it was just a significant redo of JCP before I saw it come down.)

They should have just put it along York. Could have also allowed them to pull the ring road farther in and improve queuing space at the signal at "68th"
Lifetime chose not to connect to the mall because Southdale as we know it will not exist in the future. Possibly the near future.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » December 10th, 2018, 4:01 pm

The tax productivity of the mall portion is remarkably unimpressive on a tax per acre basis. A lot of high value uses that what it is currently producing.

I’m trying to imagine how they’d shave things down. The Hennepin Government Services outpost was just added and they signed a lease for quite a while.

I’ve been praying that the twin condo towers that was proposed across France, and got shot down, would be resurrected on the Herberger’s wing. Tear off Herberger’s, like JCP was, and just paste in the two condo towers on Herberger’s and a chunk of the Herberger’s parking lot.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 10th, 2018, 6:15 pm

It might make sense to tear down anything that wasn’t part of the original, smaller mall.

Would it be possible to create any kind of street/woonerf grid there, with the original mall as the core?

Those condo towers (well, a larger version) are being built in downtown Mpls. Would they still have a mini-me version out in the suburbs?

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » December 10th, 2018, 6:20 pm

In an interview on the downtown tower they said The Eleven explicitly was not a reboot of the Edina proposal. They may have been fibbing.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 10th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Anondson wrote:They may have been fibbing.


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