Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am

Anondson wrote:Didn’t the PC deny the Caribou drive through but the council opened their arms for it?
Yep. The council has been going against the PC in a number of projects over the past year. That’s certainly their right, as the PC is just advisory to the council.

But it’s frustrating that the city asks developers for X, then developers deliver X and the city rejects it; or developers deliver Y and the council approves it. *shrug*

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 23rd, 2018, 8:26 am

sdho wrote:That Edina City Council sure does not seem to agree much with their Planning Commission -- after rejecting a couple (*much* better IMO) Southdale projects that the PC recommended approval of, here they're approving what PC said to deny. *shrug*

But suburban aesthetic and amount of surface parking notwithstanding -- it's not too bad. The buildings look nice, and it is nice to add a good number of units. … Fred Richards and the trail are nice, but there's not much else around here, and it's a long walk (and challenging bike ride) to access anything in more central Southdale area. If I were looking for housing in this general area, I would definitely choose Onyx, 71 France, or One Southdale over this location.
The council, being elected, has to consider not only the merit of a project, but also potential resident backlash. It seems they are paying (too much?) attention to squeaky wheels. They need to put their money where their mouth is. Alas, it is an election year.

The buildings aren’t horrible, but they are not mixed use, so they are dead space that you need to walk/bike/drive past, and they do nothing to encourage people to walk or bike to the Fred Richards Park or the Nine Mile Creek Trail, or to pull people out of the trail and interact/shop/entertain themselves in the city proper.

Old school suburban.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » June 27th, 2018, 12:03 pm

Multimodal wrote:
June 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am
Anondson wrote:Didn’t the PC deny the Caribou drive through but the council opened their arms for it?
Yep. The council has been going against the PC in a number of projects over the past year. That’s certainly their right, as the PC is just advisory to the council.

But it’s frustrating that the city asks developers for X, then developers deliver X and the city rejects it; or developers deliver Y and the council approves it. *shrug*
It is their legal right, but I consider it a red flag. They appoint the Planning Commission; the Planning Commission does a less politicized and deeper dive into the larger planning picture than the Council. In general, I think disagreeing with their recommendation should be a fairly infrequent outcome.

Land-use decisions aren't just playing Sim City of what we want in one place or another. It is also about a fundamental fairness between property owners and developers. And in this case, a person's ability to make full/appropriate economic use of their property is contingent less on a cohesive, carefully considered plan, and more on the attitude/opinion/aesthetic preference of the nearby neighbors. This is not how this should work.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 28th, 2018, 4:55 am

Good point, but did neighbors protest this development? I don’t think the density is what was at issue, but rather the land use (housing-only vs. mixed use).

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby MNdible » June 28th, 2018, 8:30 am

In this case, wasn't it a matter of the developer realizing that the poor soils in the area would make a larger development too expensive? And the PC, with no particular skin in the game, tried to require them to build something denser? And then the CC accepted the developer's financial argument in the interest of getting something built on this site?

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 28th, 2018, 9:23 am

It wasn’t about density, it was about land use.

This is old school, inwardly focused, suburban development. It’s right on the brand new Nine Mile Creek Trail (and soon-to-be Fred Richards Park) and has no use or interaction with them, will not draw park users out into the city.

Sure, the Land of 10,000 Lakes has water & soil issues, but that’s no excuse to revert to 1970’s style development.

The city will regret this development for decades, much like the 5000 Vernon drive-through coffee shop & bagel place. Land use like this actively works against place making, walking, & biking.

I’ve talked in the Uptown Arby’s thread about gateways. This (and 5000 Vernon) are gateway locations also. Land use & design at gateways are critical. Something average-to-junky like this is OK (but not great) stuck in the middle of other developments, but it just burns at such a prominent location, that could pull users (not motorists) into a great experience in a city, neighborhood, park, or trail.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » June 28th, 2018, 9:30 am

MNdible, it was exactly that. Pentagon Revival LLC had actually made their money back for the entire site with the sale of the southern parcel to the other developer. This wasn't put forward publicly but their plan B, if the apartments didn't go through, was to renovate the last four office buildings and leave it an office park. The city council, with their plans for the park, in no way wanted that. I think the city would have greatly regretted leaving it an office park for the next fifty years more than a slightly lackluster land use.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 28th, 2018, 9:33 am

iMad wrote:MNdible, it was exactly that. Pentagon Revival LLC had actually made their money back for the entire site with the sale of the southern parcel to the other developer. This wasn't put forward publicly but their plan B, if the apartments didn't go through, was to renovate the last four office buildings and leave it an office park. The city council, with their plans for the park, in no way wanted that. I think the city would have greatly regretted leaving it an office park for the next fifty years more than a slightly lackluster land use.
Sure, and the 5000 Vernon developer threatened to build a car wash if his development didn’t get approved.

Do you think that would happen? Is that all a developer has to do to get their way is to threaten a terrible development, which wouldn’t make them nearly as much money?

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » June 28th, 2018, 9:46 am

I'm not looking to get into an argument over the merits of this development, I'm just here adding insight from what I've been told by my landlord (Pentagon Revival LLC). They're at a break even on the investment now, and would actually make more money over the next ten years leasing out a fully renovated office park (the renovated ones are nearly fully leased) than selling the land for the apartments.

Pentagon Park has been in development hell since the early 2000s and nothing except a small condo building (before the market crash) that got turned into apartments, some renovated office buildings, and a cleared dirt lot have come about on the site. I think the city council was just happy to get something built in an area that has been struggling to get redeveloped for over a decade.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » June 29th, 2018, 5:00 pm

Multimodal wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 4:55 am
Good point, but did neighbors protest this development? I don’t think the density is what was at issue, but rather the land use (housing-only vs. mixed use).
No, they did not protest. That's exactly my point! This developer is empowered to invest in the property based on its potential, not based on the first reaction of immediate neighbors. (In this case, likely because most neighbors are office and light industrial who would not see high-density housing as a problem.)

In other sites, where it's in close proximity to houses, the developer's ability to use the parcel in an appropriate manner is much more limited. And it's in no neutral or objective way, like saying the most residential neighbors warrants the most cautious approach. (If that were the case, the Guitar Center site, adjacent to hundreds of multi-family units, would have met more scrutiny.) It seems to be entirely based on who shows up at the public hearing, and what political strings opponents can pull.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » June 29th, 2018, 5:01 pm

iMad wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 9:46 am
Pentagon Park has been in development hell since the early 2000s and nothing except a small condo building (before the market crash) that got turned into apartments, some renovated office buildings, and a cleared dirt lot have come about on the site. I think the city council was just happy to get something built in an area that has been struggling to get redeveloped for over a decade.
Good point. Although the more central Southdale area has been doing great, it has been really, consistently hard to get anything to happen in the Pentagon area since Burgundy Place. (Which, as you note, had its hiccup with the original condo ownership failing.) It is a win to get *something* to move here.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » June 29th, 2018, 10:27 pm

sdho wrote:Although the more central Southdale area has been doing great, it has been really, consistently hard to get anything to happen in the Pentagon area
But has it been for only 1 reason that nothing has happened at Pentagon Park, or have the market conditions changed several times over the past 20 years?

It seems that, pre-2008, Pentagon was dealing with the slowdown in office construction, and floundered.

2008-2012 was a very slow economy.

2013-today, you could build an apartment building in a swamp and you’d have renters.

So it’s moved from mostly office to mostly residential.

On top of that, the city decided to decommission Fred Richards Golf Course, and it took them several years to come up with a replacement park. And of course the decade of bickering over Nine Mile Creek Trail.

All these things affected what Pentagon Park would end up as today. It’s clear that a substantial residential portion would be successful next to a fantastic trail and plans for an amazing city-wide park.

It just seems very short-sighted to think, “OMG we have to build something, anything, so we’ll just take this suburban apartment building and forget everything we’ve been pushing for about multimodal transportation, place making, and human-scaled streets.” Because, like the person who calls this kind of development “drivable urbanism” in the Southdale area, we can call this exactly that.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » July 2nd, 2018, 10:06 am

Although it may not be perfect I’m a fan of this development and think it will be a big win for the city. The city gets parking and a relocated access road for the new park. It also brings a significant amount of people into the area that currently is devoid of people outside of office hours. I am sad to see all the mature trees lining West 77th getting taken out though

I honestly don’t think there is enough demand for additional retail in this area yet. The southern development is going to have a retail component in both phase one and two which will probably take up any demand in the direct area over the next five to ten years. The retail in Burgundy Place only completely filled up in the last few years and that was a fairly small space.

As for walkable streets I think this project is a significant improvement to the site. There are currently no sidewalks here. They’re adding a sidewalk lining West 77th which is desperately needed, I see people walking in the street regularly instead of crossing and using the one on the southern side. They’re also adding five sidewalks connecting up through the new development to the park.

But the best part of this project is honestly the reduction and reconfiguring of the driveways. The site currently has six poorly sized and spread out driveways, they’re reducing it to three. Two of these have landscaped medians running down the center, and nearly line up with the entrances to Seagate. Which I’m hoping leads the city to reconfigure 77th to get people to slow down. This stretch of road is, in my opinion, more hostile than France. Between Computer Ave and Parklawn Ave there are minimal traffic control devices, no crosswalks, and no medians. The speed limit here is 30mph but even with weekly speed traps it fails to deter people from going 50mph+. Getting out of the site in a car during rush hour is difficult and nerve-racking, I would never even consider trying to cross the road on foot during that time.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » July 3rd, 2018, 10:59 pm

Multimodal wrote:
June 29th, 2018, 10:27 pm
It just seems very short-sighted to think, “OMG we have to build something, anything, so we’ll just take this suburban apartment building and forget everything we’ve been pushing for about multimodal transportation, place making, and human-scaled streets.” Because, like the person who calls this kind of development “drivable urbanism” in the Southdale area, we can call this exactly that.
I'm not even sure I'd call it drivable urbanism, because it's barely urbanism ;). One Southdale is drivable urbanism.

I have been on both sides of this argument, but right now I'm inclined to say it is better to have a good site filled and get some momentum going. There is such a vast area of underutilized land that is so much more central than this site, you could be building at this pace for 40 years and not need to get this far out from the core of the Southdale District. How upset can we get about a 5-story apartment building being not dense enough for an industrial park, when the City recently approved a single-story drive-thru fast food restaurant occupying 1.5 acres in the very core of the district?

To be honest: I simply do not have the same faith you do that Fred Richards' trail and amenity improvements will make it anything like Centennial Lakes. Which is fine... not every park has to be like that. I believe it will be a nice park, and a more functional amenity than the golf course. But Centennial Lakes is so unique as an urban park because of this public-private partnership that built it, and because of almost exclusively high-intensity zoning that surrounds it. We're just not going to see that here for the foreseeable future.

And I think that effort of pushing for better is best spent in the core of the Southdale District, on projects like Estelle, and against projects like Steak n' Shake (or whatever it's called)

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » July 3rd, 2018, 11:03 pm

iMad wrote:
July 2nd, 2018, 10:06 am
As for walkable streets I think this project is a significant improvement to the site. There are currently no sidewalks here. They’re adding a sidewalk lining West 77th which is desperately needed, I see people walking in the street regularly instead of crossing and using the one on the southern side. They’re also adding five sidewalks connecting up through the new development to the park.
Unfortunately, I think that new sidewalk will only be for that one development, and Edina does not have a great track record in filling these gaps left by development-driven sidewalks. See the 140-foot gap left in front of 5100 Industrial Blvd, and a similar gap recently created along the 77th/Minnesota diagonal between Parklawn and the new TC Orthopedics building.

A dead-end sidewalk is better than no sidewalk, but I certainly don't expect this project to fix how ped-unfriendly 77th St is here.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » October 9th, 2018, 12:49 pm

The apartment component of this redevelopment is dead. They're going to move forward with renovations on the four not renovated buildings now and the entire northern parcel is going to stay office space for the foreseeable future, according to my landlord. The city council denied final approvals.

https://www.hometownsource.com/sun_curr ... 57dd5.html

The hotel and office component on the southern parcel is suppose to break ground next spring with the hotel. I honestly wouldn't put too much hope on that happening though with the way this entire development has been going.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby nordeast homer » October 25th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Work has started on the site of the former "tower" of Pentagon Park. The trees have been cleared and the left over concrete slabs are being taken up. Looks like the 2 hotels and parking structure are under way.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » October 26th, 2018, 11:52 am

I was surprised to see something actually happening! I couldn't even pinpoint what was different when I went to work today. Trees! No trees. That's it.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » November 16th, 2018, 12:47 pm

They're sure moving a lot of dirt. I've been at the coworking space 3 days this week and I've just been seeing dozens and dozens of side load dump trucks hauling dirt away.

Unclear if they're removing contaminated soil or they just want less dirt on the site.

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Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » December 26th, 2018, 10:54 am

The tower site now has a brand: "Pentagon Village". They also have a domain: http://pentagonvillageedina.com/ (no site up yet)

Fence signage up now: https://twitter.com/sdho/status/1077950288022126592


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