Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Twin Cities Suburbs
Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 26th, 2018, 1:00 pm

Interesting how the Pentagon brand lives on in the absence of one.

Glad to see progress, in any case.

User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » December 26th, 2018, 2:50 pm

Personally really dislike the Pentagon Village brand. I liked the branding direction of the temporary signage they had for several years: "Pentagon Reborn" with the simple line work logo. But in most cases, the branding doesn't last long and doesn't have a huge role in the final development. All references to Burgundy Place across the street by that name have vanished -- the current name, Edina Gateway, appears on only one small awning.

But yes, despite the "meh" land use, after a few failed attempts, I am glad to see a pretty solid project finally be physically underway.

User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » December 26th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Some renderings here: https://solomonre.com/pentagon-village-edina-mn/

From the July 2018 video Edina posted, sounds like the initial construction will only includes the single-story retail buildings and the hotels, although the site will be "shovel-ready" for future office use: https://www.facebook.com/edinamn/videos ... 319328659/

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » December 26th, 2018, 3:16 pm

Yes, it’s a multi-phase project. The economy/demand may determine when/if phase 2 happens.

User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » January 16th, 2019, 12:44 pm

sdho wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:54 am
The tower site now has a brand: "Pentagon Village". They also have a domain: http://pentagonvillageedina.com/ (no site up yet)

Fence signage up now: https://twitter.com/sdho/status/1077950288022126592
Website is up now: https://www.pentagonvillageedina.com/

Doesn't offer much more detail than the signs. The development (where most of the land area is parking lot) is "urban-inspired".

iMad
Block E
Posts: 16
Joined: January 29th, 2014, 3:17 pm

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » January 17th, 2019, 9:17 am

The website for the existing office buildings is up now too: http://www.pentagonpark.com/ Renovations for the 4620 and 4550 building are currently underway, they're updating some parts of the other renovated buildings, and are planning new outdoor landscaped areas. The northern office buildings are here to stay, at least for the next decade.

Edina really dropped the ball here. I don't even think they got the land swap for the new access road and parking they wanted for Fred Richards.

User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » January 17th, 2019, 9:25 am

iMad wrote:
January 17th, 2019, 9:17 am
Edina really dropped the ball here. I don't even think they got the land swap for the new access road and parking they wanted for Fred Richards.
Agreed, it was really disappointing that apartment project fell through. Also, from a branding perspective, it's interesting that they are going all-out kitschy mid-century -- but probably a good match for these very mid-century and medium-attractive buildings. I even saw them taking down the "pentagon reborn" signs a week or so ago.

It would soften the blow slightly if they improved the parking lots (landscaping and curbs) and added a sidewalk on the north side of 77th. But, without major redevelopment, I doubt they have any reason to.

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 17th, 2019, 10:49 am

sdho wrote:
iMad wrote:
January 17th, 2019, 9:17 am
Edina really dropped the ball here. I don't even think they got the land swap for the new access road and parking they wanted for Fred Richards.
Agreed, it was really disappointing that apartment project fell through.
If you want some idea of how old fashioned suburban, inwardly focused, and navel gazing that proposed development would be, take a walk around the Towerlight building at 36th & Wooddale in St. Louis Park. Despite having a city park on the corner, that streetscape is dead.

A second concern was that, because of the way the business deal was designed, the developer could not guarantee that there would be affordable housing nearby, as per city requirements.

iMad
Block E
Posts: 16
Joined: January 29th, 2014, 3:17 pm

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby iMad » January 17th, 2019, 1:05 pm

As a tenant I'm happy to see the changes to the branding, buildings, and landscaping. They've already gutted two of the bathrooms in my building, and are supposedly adding bike storage with showers in one of the buildings. As for the parking lots and curbs, they sent out a memo about adding new landscaping and outside seating so some of the parking lots will probably be reconfigured slightly. I'd be happy if they added a new sidewalk to the North side of 77th, but I just don't see it happening with the way the land gets significantly higher in front of the Eastern buildings.

As for the original proposal being "old fashioned and inwardly focused" pretty much all of Edina is that way already (except for 50th & France) so it wasn't outside the norm. Every time someone proposes something slightly ambitious in Edina it's rejected as too dense, like the original 7250 France proposal or The Estelle. I thought the original proposal was a good move in the right direction but Edina is just so slow to react to any changes to the city, case in point the rejection of the adaptive reuse of the DQ HQ building as apartments.

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 17th, 2019, 3:03 pm

iMad wrote:As for the original proposal being "old fashioned and inwardly focused" pretty much all of Edina is that way already (except for 50th & France) so it wasn't outside the norm.
But we want to change the norm.

Building more of the same doesn’t change anything.
iMad wrote:Every time someone proposes something slightly ambitious in Edina it's rejected as too dense, like the original 7250 France proposal or The Estelle. I thought the original proposal was a good move in the right direction but Edina is just so slow to react to any changes to the city, case in point the rejection of the adaptive reuse of the DQ HQ building as apartments.
I agree 7250 took too many tries. That was absurd.

The Estelle was a good project in the wrong place. Location, location, location. If I’m looking to build a concrete factory, and the church next to your house is up for sale, should I build it there because the land is cheap? Why didn’t the developer propose it across the street on France? Why weren’t they willing to spend the money to put it where it belongs? Sure, increase density west of France by building missing middle housing leading up to 6-8 stories. But 20+ stories? We won’t need that kind of density there until the rest of France-to-York fills in. We got plenty of land.

As for DQ, the city said they need to plan for it. Many single family homeowners think the city wants density everywhere, but here’s a perfect example of where the city shows it needs to think about it. Does it make sense there, with no other walkable or transit destinations nearby (or planned)? Does it make sense to destroy all the commercial & industrial tax base (which is taxed at twice the rate of residential property)? Where will people work? Again, there are much better *existing* places that are destined for change (Southdale District and all the nodes). Why here, now?

It’s easy to say we need change everywhere, now. But that’s not planning.


User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » January 18th, 2019, 1:10 am

Multimodal wrote:
January 17th, 2019, 3:03 pm
The Estelle was a good project in the wrong place. Location, location, location. If I’m looking to build a concrete factory, and the church next to your house is up for sale, should I build it there because the land is cheap? Why didn’t the developer propose it across the street on France? Why weren’t they willing to spend the money to put it where it belongs? Sure, increase density west of France by building missing middle housing leading up to 6-8 stories. But 20+ stories? We won’t need that kind of density there until the rest of France-to-York fills in. We got plenty of land.
Where is the right place for Estelle if not in the heart of the highest-density, most regionally focused part of Edina?

If it is fine on the east side of France, it should be fine on the west side of France. The general idea that the "corridor" should be centered around east-side-of-France to west-side-of-York* is bizarre and totally counter to how great streets look. A street can -- and should! -- be balanced on both sides.

*(East-side-of-York concerns are mostly theoretical, but it is nominally treated the same as west-side-of-France in the newest planning documents)

I disagree about the Pentagon residential project -- and am surprised you cite TowerLight as an example of something bad. The Pentagon project was not the most breathtaking in the world, but it was a massive leap forward for corridor that is currently low-density industrial and old office buildings.

I get that a future Fred Richards Park area *could* be great. But, you're going to have to build something first.

I'd keep the really high standards for the core of the Southdale District -- I would be 1000% supportive of revising zoning to prohibit building things like that Shake Shack in this area. Incredibly bad land use in an area with so much promising development.

User avatar
sdho
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 754
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 12:54 pm
Location: The Urban Hometown®
Contact:

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby sdho » January 18th, 2019, 1:17 am

Regarding the idea we have plenty of land -- my other general comment is that for 99.9% of our metro area, tall buildings are not really about getting the most density on the least amount of land. Even in or near downtown Minneapolis, it's not necessarily about the max du / acre, etc.

It's to provide an amenity for the residents and the community, and create a landmark. Views are nice. Views are better higher up.

And IMO the entire community benefits from well-placed tall buildings. I quite like seeing the cluster of 10-15 story buildings in downtown Richfield, poking over the tree tops from the Crosstown Commons. Same effect going east on Crosstown from 100 and seeing Edina Towers and Westin as important landmarks of the Southdale District. It creates a sense of identity.

And, for people who live there, they get pretty breathtaking views.

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:21 am

sdho wrote:Where is the right place for Estelle if not in the heart of the highest-density, most regionally focused part of Edina?
Generally, but not right there. East of France are parking lots and the 2-story Southdale Center and Galleria, and an under-construction Restoration Hardware and Shake Shack (but otherwise parking lots). Image


Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:23 am

Compare that to a traditionally developed urban area next to a downtown, like Kenwood at Hennepin. Sure you’ve got residential towers on the west side of Hennepin, but then you have 6-story or so apartment complexes, followed by missing middle housing, then followed by single family homes. It’s a natural progression. You didn’t get that with Estelle. Image


Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:37 am

sdho wrote:I disagree about the Pentagon residential project -- and am surprised you cite TowerLight as an example of something bad. The Pentagon project was not the most breathtaking in the world, but it was a massive leap forward for corridor that is currently low-density industrial and old office buildings.

I get that a future Fred Richards Park area *could* be great. But, you're going to have to build something first.
Have you been to the Towerlight area? Please, take a photo of a pedestrian there , because there are none. There’s just one, giant, inwardly focused use that has no interaction with the street. The building looks fine, the business is fine, there’s just nothing that invites pedestrians in.

Then look across the street with it’s ostensibly terrible 1-story building. Yet there is fine-grained retail there, with doorways into businesses every 20-30 feet or so. You’ll find pedestrians on that side of the street. Towerlight is dead to the street. The corner in front of Towerlight is literally a city park, and yet no one goes there.

An inwardly-focused business like that is not a good land use next to tiny pocket park (at 36th & Wooddale), much less a giant regional park with a regional trail (at Fred Richards Park).
Image

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:38 am

Here’s Towerlight from 36th St.:

Image

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:38 am

And here’s the building across the street:
Image

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 6:44 am

sdho wrote:I'd keep the really high standards for the core of the Southdale District -- I would be 1000% supportive of revising zoning to prohibit building things like that Shake Shack in this area. Incredibly bad land use in an area with so much promising development.
Yes, I agree.

Other than the apartments that were added, the Southdale Center block has added rather uninspiring lower density developments to its edges, especially compared to Galleria’s block with its hotel & condo tower.

Multimodal
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 667
Joined: March 4th, 2016, 7:55 am
Location: Oh, no, the burbs!

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Multimodal » January 18th, 2019, 7:07 am

sdho wrote:Regarding the idea we have plenty of land -- my other general comment is that for 99.9% of our metro area, tall buildings are not really about getting the most density on the least amount of land. Even in or near downtown Minneapolis, it's not necessarily about the max du / acre, etc.

It's to provide an amenity for the residents and the community, and create a landmark. Views are nice. Views are better higher up.

And IMO the entire community benefits from well-placed tall buildings.
So, if I understand you correctly, next to the highest-density area outside of Mpls & St. Paul downtowns, you’d want/allow 20+ story towers on, say, the east side of Xerxes, if there were demand for it? Image

Ubermoose
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 168
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:24 am

Re: Pentagon Park (Hwy 100 & Industrial Blvd) - Edina

Postby Ubermoose » January 18th, 2019, 9:26 am

Multimodal wrote:
January 18th, 2019, 6:37 am
Have you been to the Towerlight area? Please, take a photo of a pedestrian there , because there are none. There’s just one, giant, inwardly focused use that has no interaction with the street. The building looks fine, the business is fine, there’s just nothing that invites pedestrians in.

Then look across the street with it’s ostensibly terrible 1-story building. Yet there is fine-grained retail there, with doorways into businesses every 20-30 feet or so. You’ll find pedestrians on that side of the street. Towerlight is dead to the street. The corner in front of Towerlight is literally a city park, and yet no one goes there.

An inwardly-focused business like that is not a good land use next to tiny pocket park (at 36th & Wooddale), much less a giant regional park with a regional trail (at Fred Richards Park).

Calling that odd corner a park is really a bit of a stretch. They didn't make it inviting at all and the sculpture leaves a lot to be desired.
I think you also have to understand the surroundings. While there are crosswalks there, it might be one of the busiest intersections in SLP, and the traffic is really moving around that corner. That coupled with all of the seniors in the area doesn't bode well. Besides that there is a parking lot across 36th where all of the small businesses are located. Why would anyone want to cross the street to look at lame sculpture and some potted plants? Towerlight itself is just senior housing and a daycare, so there's not much going on there unless your visiting or dropping off kids.


Return to “Suburbs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest