Suburbs - General Topics

Twin Cities Suburbs
seanrichardryan
Capella Tower
Posts: 3926
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Merriam Park, St. Paul
Contact:

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » September 1st, 2015, 8:47 pm

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4602
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » September 1st, 2015, 8:58 pm

Could St Paul just not be bothered to annex all the way to the county line?

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5786
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby MNdible » September 1st, 2015, 9:00 pm

Right, I know that the southern leg is the leftover land between the eastern border of St. Paul and the eastern border of Ramsey County. But the question is, why didn't St. Paul just annex that land (which they wanted to do)? Anecdotally, the answer is that 3M had moved out there and liked the idea of being the big fish in a small pond, and so helped Maplewood to take its current shape.

EDIT: You can pretty easily read between the lines of the first couple of paragraphs here.

Mikey
Landmark Center
Posts: 259
Joined: January 6th, 2015, 2:33 pm
Location: Gunflint Trail
Contact:

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby Mikey » September 4th, 2015, 12:30 pm

I remember it being along the lines of St Paul wanted to annex 3M, but JUST 3M, not the whole area. Fearful that their future tax base would be decimated, Maplewood was born.

But seriously, that whole "town" just needs to be split up between St Paul (south of Laurpenteur), Little Canada and North St Paul (US 61 / White Bear Ave?)
Urbanist in the north woods

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7907
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby mattaudio » September 4th, 2015, 12:48 pm

Fun fact: If you want to go from a house on the southern edge of the city (Bailey Road) to the Cub Foods on the northern edge of the city (36 and Rice Street) Google Maps will route you along 19 miles of the 494/694 beltway (over 25% of the entire distance of our beltway) before going south on 35E to 36 to Rice Street. Seriously.

Trivia:
1. How many other municipalities would one drive through or alongside in this Maplewood-to-Maplewood journey? (counting Bailey Road as the exit on 494)
2. How many cities are fully within the path of this Maplewood-to-Maplewood journey, though never driven through or alongside?

VAStationDude
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 782
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:30 am

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby VAStationDude » September 4th, 2015, 3:33 pm

Saint Paul, Newport, Woodbury, Oakdale, North Saint Paul, Mahtomedi, White Bear Lake, Vadnis Heights and Little Canada. Did I miss one? Does Pine Springs extend over to 694?

The extreme southern reaches of Saint Paul fascinate me. Several homes along Port Douglas Road have massive barn like garages and the owners still keep a boat, snowmobiles and a couple cars sitting in the yard. It's like East Bethel in the big city.

bptenor
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 142
Joined: November 11th, 2012, 9:28 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby bptenor » September 4th, 2015, 8:24 pm

Yes, Gem Lake extends to 694 as well. I grew up in "North Maplewood" and its a completely different place than "South Maplewood," or the "southern leg."

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7907
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby mattaudio » September 8th, 2015, 8:13 am

VAStationDude wrote:Saint Paul, Newport, Woodbury, Oakdale, North Saint Paul, Mahtomedi, White Bear Lake, Vadnis Heights and Little Canada. Did I miss one? Does Pine Springs extend over to 694?
Correct! For this Maplewood to Maplewood drive, I counted driving through St. Paul, Roseville, Little Canada, Vadnais Heights, White Bear Lake, Mahtomedi, Pine Springs, Oakdale, Woodbury, Newport. It would also completely encircle the communities of North St. Paul and Landfall.
VAStationDude wrote: The extreme southern reaches of Saint Paul fascinate me. Several homes along Port Douglas Road have massive barn like garages and the owners still keep a boat, snowmobiles and a couple cars sitting in the yard. It's like East Bethel in the big city.
Gravel roads, etc. Yes, it's so strange how quick civilization seems to drop off southeast of St. Paul.

User avatar
Mdcastle
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 761
Joined: March 23rd, 2013, 8:28 am
Location: Bloomington, MN
Contact:

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » September 8th, 2015, 10:02 am

The New Hope / Crystal boundary is a mess too. They should get together, along with Robbinsdale.

fehler
Rice Park
Posts: 441
Joined: July 30th, 2012, 8:33 am

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby fehler » September 8th, 2015, 10:07 am

Funny: http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3898071.shtml

13 Car Crashes in 1 Week at New Lakeville Roundabout

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6189
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » September 8th, 2015, 1:48 pm

Mdcastle wrote:The New Hope / Crystal boundary is a mess too. They should get together, along with Robbinsdale.
Agreed 100%!! Though Robbinsdale is currently undergoing quite a little renaissance downtown - I'm not sure they'd be eager to join up. Crystal and New Hope could be in some serious trouble in the coming years. I'm not sure who those communities are attracting, if anyone. Deteriorating housing stock and not super close to any suburban employment center. I agree in theory that putting all 3 together would make the most sense, but even just taking care of merging Crystal and New Hope would be good enough for me. That boundary is ridiculous.

First / First-and-a-half ring suburbs like the aforementioned (and pretty much all of Ramsey County's burbs) should be looking at merging.

What are the potential carrots for the county or legislature to dangle to make that happen?
I can think of a few sticks (no new LGA funds for towns under 25,000 pop. in the 7-county metro, etc.)

Suburban areas that should merge:
Crystal / New Hope / Robbinsdale
Pretty much all of suburban Ramsey County (that or merge the inner-ring with St. Paul)
The southern dangle of Anoka County (Columbia Hts / Hilltop / Fridley / Spring Lake Park)
West St. Paul / South St. Paul (and for the love of geography call it South St. Paul!)
Mendota Hts / Mendota / Lilydale
Osseo with BP (and maybe Brooklyn Center too, though that's a stretch)
North shore of Lake Minnetonka should consolidate as Wayzata-Orono
South shore of Lake Minnetonka should consolidate as Excelsior-Shorewood

User avatar
Tiller
Foshay Tower
Posts: 850
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 11:58 am

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby Tiller » September 8th, 2015, 2:00 pm

I think a city-county merger of St Paul-Ramsey County was discussed somewhere here before. With St Paul having roughly 3/5 of Ramsey County's population, it could theoretically defacto annex the rest of the county that way. Now that would be an interesting happening.

Edit: Oakdale, North St Paul, and Maplewood do currently share a school district (isd 622).

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6189
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » September 8th, 2015, 2:07 pm

I think with any potential mergers (whether city-county or city-city) you'd have to leave school districts off the table, at least initially. School districts are creations of the state and have no actual affiliation with their municipalities anyways, so it actually only complicates things to bring schools into it.

The primary benefits of the potential mergers we're talking about would be governmental efficiency (economies of scale, etc.) and the potential for lower city taxes (though history shows this doesn't always happen). A secondary benefit (IMO, anyways) would be increased stature and prominence in the metropolitan economy. "Brand recognition", essentially.

User avatar
Tiller
Foshay Tower
Posts: 850
Joined: January 17th, 2015, 11:58 am

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby Tiller » September 8th, 2015, 11:04 pm

Oh, yeah. While I wasn't entirely clear in doing so (since I just edited it in quickly), noting the shared school district was meant to tie into merging the suburban cities (sans St Paul) together, since it has already effectively blended the three together socially.

User avatar
seamonster
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 153
Joined: May 14th, 2015, 1:12 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby seamonster » September 10th, 2015, 9:20 am

Mdcastle wrote:The New Hope / Crystal boundary is a mess too. They should get together, along with Robbinsdale.
There is an island of Crystal in New Hope. WTF.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/New+H ... 086a?hl=en

User avatar
jw138
Union Depot
Posts: 338
Joined: June 30th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby jw138 » September 11th, 2015, 8:55 am

seamonster wrote:
Mdcastle wrote:The New Hope / Crystal boundary is a mess too. They should get together, along with Robbinsdale.
There is an island of Crystal in New Hope. WTF.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/New+H ... 086a?hl=en
Yeah, that's bizarre... Turnaround is fair play though. At Louisiana Ave & Hwy 10 there's an island of New Hope in Crystal!!

Mikey
Landmark Center
Posts: 259
Joined: January 6th, 2015, 2:33 pm
Location: Gunflint Trail
Contact:

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby Mikey » September 11th, 2015, 8:48 pm

Don't forget the island of Mahtomedi inside of Willernie which itself is surrounded by - you guessed it, Mahtomedi!

With Birchwood Village thrown in for good measure
Urbanist in the north woods

acs
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1378
Joined: March 26th, 2014, 8:41 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby acs » September 15th, 2015, 8:27 am

Dear urbanites, quit ridiculing the suburb I love:
http://m.startribune.com/local/yourvoic ... ?section=/

Of all the suburbs she picked to defend, she picked Lakeville.

User avatar
VacantLuxuries
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 704
Joined: February 20th, 2015, 12:38 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby VacantLuxuries » September 15th, 2015, 8:52 am

But I’m never more disappointed than when urbanites spout clichéd opinions about suburban living.
How dare those liberals living in Murderapolis, boondoggle land, spout clichés. Where's the parking, amiright?

User avatar
seamonster
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 153
Joined: May 14th, 2015, 1:12 pm

Re: Suburbs - General Topics

Postby seamonster » September 15th, 2015, 9:00 am

acs wrote: Of all the suburbs she picked to defend, she picked Lakeville.
Lakeville native here.

Curious as to why you question the selection (other than the obvious reason, that the author lives there). I may be splitting hairs here, but Lakeville was a town unto itself before being swallowed by the suburbs. There was no need to construct a faux downtown since one already existed. It has elements that are more Hopkins than Woodbury (though there certainly is a large amount like Woodbury, too). I think there would be other suburbs that are far more difficult to defend...I don't know...like... maybe Woodbury.

*steps off soapbox*

#gopanthers


Return to “Suburbs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest