610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

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610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby MN_Build.org » January 22nd, 2014, 9:50 pm

The hwy 610 corridor in Brooklyn Park between hwy 252 and hwy 169 is booming right now. The area has always had great potential and economic development was severely slowed in last 5 years. But recent infrastructure upgrades including the extension of hwy 610 to hwy 81 and removing the lights at hwy 169 and 93rd ave. have made hwy 169 a freeway up to hwy 610 which has helped spur the recent growth, as well as the improving economy. Target just completed their expansion of their corporate center in the area.



Metro Transit has made an investment to expand the park and ride facility at Noble Pkwy and hwy 610. Should be completed in the summer of 2014.
http://www.metrotransit.org/610

Image

Ryan Cos. is currently putting together plans to develop 150 acres in the area.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... e-for.html

PrairieCare is planning on building a new hospital in the area that will create 150 jobs.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... -park.html

Olympus is building a facility that will bring 280 jobs to the area.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... -park.html

Kwik Trip has built two stations off of Zane Ave. and Noble Pkwy. respectively. And McDonald's opened a new restaurant off of Zane and Oak Grove Pkwy.

These are some of the updates in the area. There will be more on the horizon in the near future I am sure.

Zanderkx
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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Zanderkx » January 22nd, 2014, 11:11 pm

I find it puzzling that Metro Transit would elect to expand the Park and Ride at Noble instead of purchasing and building on a new site near the Bottineau terminus at Broadway.

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Anondson
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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Anondson » January 22nd, 2014, 11:32 pm

It seemed inevitable this would go wild with development as soon as it was inevitable the connection to 94 was happening.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mplsjaromir » January 23rd, 2014, 5:31 am

It's hard to get excited about bland suburban sprawl.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mattaudio » January 23rd, 2014, 7:41 am

Meanwhile this will expedite 80s-era auto-oriented corridors becoming slums. The 25-year lifecycle of sprawl is devastating. Enjoy it while it lasts, MG.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Rich » January 23rd, 2014, 8:21 am

Zanderkx wrote:I find it puzzling that Metro Transit would elect to expand the Park and Ride at Noble instead of purchasing and building on a new site near the Bottineau terminus at Broadway.
I’m guessing the answer is that the Noble transit stop is increasingly popular and the current facility won’t accomodate everyone. They need more parking right now. There’s not really any need for a park and ride for Bottineau, which is still many years away.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby MN_Build.org » January 23rd, 2014, 8:09 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:It's hard to get excited about bland suburban sprawl.
It's better than a bunch of empty fields in the middle of a suburban area.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mattaudio » January 23rd, 2014, 8:12 pm

I'm guessing most people here would prefer empty fields...

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby MN_Build.org » January 23rd, 2014, 8:15 pm

Rich wrote:
Zanderkx wrote:I find it puzzling that Metro Transit would elect to expand the Park and Ride at Noble instead of purchasing and building on a new site near the Bottineau terminus at Broadway.
I’m guessing the answer is that the Noble transit stop is increasingly popular and the current facility won’t accomodate everyone. They need more parking right now. There’s not really any need for a park and ride for Bottineau, which is still many years away.
Yeah not only that but I am sure that Metro Transit will milk as much Federal funding that would be available for any investment toward the future Bottineau line, which is a few years away as you stated.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Tcmetro » January 23rd, 2014, 8:41 pm

Noble/610 has been in planning for a while, mainly because the existing lot has a high amount of usage relative to it's space. It is independent of the Bottineau light-rail plan, and that's why there is little coordination between the two projects. When Bottineau opens, I would imagine a lot of park-and-riders will move over because of the additional opportunities for midday and late hour travel.

As for the development, I suppose that it is useful to at least build something near the new freeway. Reading the article about Olympus, I am disappointed that Brooklyn Park would offer subsidies to poach a company from Maple Grove. Corporate subsidies in it's finest form.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mulad » January 24th, 2014, 8:39 am

Stop.

Just because it popped up as the 3rd link in my Google search for Brooklyn Park today, here's the city zoning map:

http://www.brooklynpark.org/assets/1/7/zoning.pdf

From a transportation/climate perspective, our priorities should be
  • walking and biking
  • transit
  • cars
in that order. Prioritizing walking and biking is more than simply building sidewalks and bike trails, and prioritizing transit is more than just building an express bus stop or locating your development at the suburban end of an LRT line, at least in 2014. It was fine to spread things out back in 1914 when cities were still mostly built around walking and slow transportation like horses (though steam trains and electric streetcars/subways were beginning to spread things out), and suburban expansion was fine to an extent in the era around 1954. But it kept going on and on and on, with most new development being less dense. The dial is beginning to turn back slowly, but still, the zoning map does not give me any confidence that the area will be developed in a good way. There can't be exclusive zoning in new greenfield development anymore. There must be a mix of uses close together so people can successfully walk or bike from home to work, and go about at least some of their daily shopping or other business. That doesn't mean that every building has to be a mixed-use apartment tower or anything, but things do need to be placed close together and mixed well.

And Brooklyn Park doesn't have to look far at all to see a much better model -- Osseo has a nice street grid with a good main street. Copy the good remnants from there and other good small towns. Stop the suburban crap. And if you really want to develop along MN-610, MnDOT really needs to go in and rework their ridiculously wide on-/off-ramp configurations. It's 900 to 1200 feet between the north and south sides of the interchanges at Noble, Zane, and Broadway, which makes them almost inherently unwalkable. A "long" block in Minneapolis is usually around 600 feet, so requiring 1.5 to 2 just to make it across the highway means that development on the north and south sides will be disconnected from each other.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mattaudio » January 24th, 2014, 9:10 am

Butbutbutbut if we make the ramps closer, where will the long line of cars queue while waiting at a stoplight to get from freeway to stroad?

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Anondson » January 24th, 2014, 9:49 am

MN_Build.org wrote:
mplsjaromir wrote:It's hard to get excited about bland suburban sprawl.
It's better than a bunch of empty fields in the middle of a suburban area.
These empty fields have been held aside for highway-friendly commercial and industrial development since 610 was planned decades ago and all of northern Brooklyn Park was farms not homes. In the decades that have passed the city continued holding off development of adjacent to then-new highway and allowed homes to leapfrog north. Now it's "in the middle" because it was planned that way. And since then transportation trends have changed and we've learned better neighborhood and regional planning practices. MNDoT engineers designed the highway for ultimate auto speed and safety, thus the absurd ramp design that causes 610 to be a virtual barrier dividing the city. Brooklyn Park has a chance to fill in this withheld space now with smarter practices but they will be dealing with the awful highway interchanges for a very long time.

They can do go forward with decades old plans if they want, as if transportation and living trends aren't changing, momentum is a strong thing in government. But I'd like to hope for something that has a nod to some walking-, cycling-, and transit-friendly options in these coming developments.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mplsjaromir » January 24th, 2014, 9:53 am

MN_Build.org wrote:
mplsjaromir wrote:It's hard to get excited about bland suburban sprawl.
It's better than a bunch of empty fields in the middle of a suburban area.
I disagree. But when your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby woofner » January 24th, 2014, 12:32 pm

mulad wrote: There can't be exclusive zoning in new greenfield development anymore. There must be a mix of uses close together so people can successfully walk or bike from home to work, and go about at least some of their daily shopping or other business. That doesn't mean that every building has to be a mixed-use apartment tower or anything, but things do need to be placed close together and mixed well.
This is really well said. Knee-jerk conservatives pretend like the only option to the current suburban paradigm is the Taylor Homes or something. In reality, it would work fine to replace it with mid-century suburban form. If your ideology won't let you look to central cities for an example, look to first-ring suburbs instead. Or is American classism that warped that first-ring suburbs are anathema to exurbanites too? I admit I avoid talking to exurbanites whenever possible (although I work with several of them and they often drive to first-ring suburbs for lunch).
mulad wrote:And if you really want to develop along MN-610, MnDOT really needs to go in and rework their ridiculously wide on-/off-ramp configurations. It's 900 to 1200 feet between the north and south sides of the interchanges at Noble, Zane, and Broadway, which makes them almost inherently unwalkable.
Good catch. We need to demand that this be stopped. Based on the cartoon they posted of the west extension, it looks like the only exit will be relatively decent, being a half partial cloverleaf, with the half diamond being only about 300' from the median of the mainline. But still, why can't it be only 150' from the median of the mainline like the Portland interchange on 62? How often do people veer off ramps for more than 150'? Does that exceed the negative consequences of discouraging people from walking by presenting them with long stretches of uncomfortable conditions?
"Who rescued whom!"

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby mattaudio » January 24th, 2014, 1:39 pm

woofner wrote:Based on the cartoon they posted of the west extension, it looks like the only exit will be relatively decent,
There's at least three reasons for this:

- Engineering requirements are taking precedence over common sense. Things like making sure you have x00 feet of queueing space at stoplights for projected demand in 2040 or something crazy like that.
- These things are designed from an aerial view. Only very late in the design/engineering process do people think about context and the human scale. That's why freeways look beautiful on a map view, but awful at the ground level. I saw an epic quotation about this phenomenon one time, but I cannot recall it.
- You think these planners give a **** about people walking and biking?
Only enough so they can check off their complete streets box on the project plan.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby MN_Build.org » January 24th, 2014, 5:59 pm

mulad wrote:And if you really want to develop along MN-610, MnDOT really needs to go in and rework their ridiculously wide on-/off-ramp configurations. It's 900 to 1200 feet between the north and south sides of the interchanges at Noble, Zane, and Broadway, which makes them almost inherently unwalkable. A "long" block in Minneapolis is usually around 600 feet, so requiring 1.5 to 2 just to make it across the highway means that development on the north and south sides will be disconnected from each other.
I've walked and biked across 610 countless times and never thinking that it was a daunting task. Maybe if people weren't so hesitant to walk an extra 300 feet we could solve this Country's obesity problem as well as connecting the north and south sides of a community.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Mdcastle » January 24th, 2014, 9:01 pm

Just because you make Maple Grove "walkable" doesn't mean people would. I imagine people like me that want a car oriented lifestyle buy in Maple Grove, and those that want to be able to walk places would buy in Minneapolis, or else even Richfield. I live a half mile way from a lot of shops, but I haven't walked there in 15 years unless it was just passing buy with walking the dog. That doesn't mean we shouldn't offer walkable areas in the outer suburbs, but some people think that's the only thing that should be offered, and I vehemently disagree. I love sprawl and so do a lot of other people apparently, judging by the number of people apparently based on the number of homes selling on those cul-de-sacs like the one in Orlando some anti-sprawl site made fun of.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby VAStationDude » January 24th, 2014, 9:22 pm

You're not reading what's been written. I don't think anyone is saying Maple Grove will become south Minneapolis. Maybe just a little more like it. Replace some trips with bike or walking, build infrastructure more affordably, etc. You won't be forced to live above a coffee shop. You might have to live by some poors but you'll survive.

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Re: 610 Corridor - Brooklyn Park

Postby Tcmetro » January 24th, 2014, 11:58 pm

Try walking from your house to the nearest grocery store and back with a few bags of groceries. Maybe in this current weather, where plowing the sidewalks is the last priority. Then come back to the forum and tell us about how walkable Hwy. 610 is.


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