Southdale Area - Edina

[MNdible]

I'd argue that the old 28 route should be resurrected (that can serve Linden Hills and do the jigs and jogs), and the 6 should be rerouted Hennepin to Lagoon to Excelsior to France. Big chunks of that can be limited stop, it could transfer to the SWLRT, tada.

[RailBaronYarr]

I know this is getting off topic a bit here, but other than the fact that the 6 has multiple branches, I'm interested in how the relatively few jogs it does slows it down. If a goal of a Lagoon-France routing is that it could be limited stop along the way, why not for the 6's current route (ie, an aBRT treatment in terms of stop-spacing)? I'm obviously showing my south-CARAG bias in desiring to keep a high-frequency line along Hennepin, but my gut tells me hitting CARAG/ECCO + Linden Hills is more important than the more predominantly-SFH and golf course zones along Excelsior/France. Maybe I'm just making an argument for high-frequency bus routes for both corridors (CARAG/Linden Hills/Xerxes, Lagoon/Excelsior/France) because they do different things. Some fantasy high-capacity transit service would have to be one or the other, though, and I think the LH/France route is better.

But we all agree that Southdale needs better options. So, lobby your MC member.

[Tcmetro]

I would imagine that a branch of the Orange Line could do quite well. It could take 66th over to Southdale, down France or York, west on 77th and over to Normandale Lake. It would work really well if Edina is willing to build bus lanes or a busway.

Building a train would be more difficult. It would be hard to build surface or elevated rail through most of Southwest Minneapolis, and a subway would probably never happen.

[David Greene]

Yeah, I agree high frequency should go along the current 6 route. Plus the whole Lake/Excelsior area is a cluster.

A connection to West Lake station certainly would be desirable though. Send the 25 over to West Bde Maka Ska Parkway and around the lake back to France? Ideally France would be punched through and the 25 could go down France to 50th and circle around back up France. That could eliminate the need for the France branch of the 6/aBRT.
Might be too long of a route though.

[David Greene]

Building a train would be more difficult. It would be hard to build surface or elevated rail through most of Southwest Minneapolis, and a subway would probably never happen.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be a train, though maybe a single LRV could work. People would definitely howl about losing the secret east Bde Maka Ska walking path though and making a bus coexist with Como-Harriet would be difficult. Getting rail south from downtown Linden Hills might be impossible.

[Squidward]

The City of Edina just hired a consulting team to explore opening the Dan Patch rail line for regional rail use. I believe the most recent city council agenda includes this

[twincitizen]

Remember that there will be a new route (tentatively 612) from West Lake SWLRT Station down France to Southdale and perhaps further down France. With that in operation, Id suggest the 6 could be simplified/consolidated on Xerxes/York.

Longer term I really think they ought to find a new home for the Southdale Transit Center (which is <5 yrs old). The NE quadrant of the mall might actually be the least ideal corner for it. Something closer to the SW corner might make more sense to serve more of the area and planned development. A downside to that is it would add time to the 515 runs, which would get expensive if it means adding another bus to keep it at hi-frequency level. That alone could kill the idea of moving the station.

I too thought about an Orange Line branch that splits off at 66th, but that would be tougher to do now that both stations (NB & SB) are being planned on the south side of 66th. To make that branch work, those both would've needed to be on the north side of 66th. Also, and more importantly, that would be a shitload of totally redundant service hours, as the Orange Line and 515 are both hi-frequency. The money would be better spent bumping the 515 to 10-minute headways or even giving it the full-on aBRT treatment.

[Silophant]

Holy cow an appropriate use of Comic Sans.

[sdho]

I'll be very curious how this shakes out. I feel there are many stronger things to say about 7200 France -- more reasonably in character with other development in the area, and adding a lot more new residents. These buildings, if built, will only house a small handful of (very wealthy) residents. The only equivalent buildings in Southdale district are Westin and Edina Towers. I'm not against this project, but it seems harder to justify.

On the other hand, no SFH is really anywhere close to this. Looks like the closest would be approximately 500 feet.

[RailBaronYarr]

A "small handful" of residents? I guess count me in the camp that says 152 units on 2.75 acres (or so) is a great way to house a bunch of people, even if they are wealthy. That's 152 households that might otherwise buy single family homes, tear them down and build new/larger ones. I'm also of the opinion that the desires of people living in detached houses that start at $350k and rapidly climb to $1m as you get close to Lake Cornelia shouldn't be given much weight. Especially if a knock against this development will be for the wealthy.

[sdho]

A small handful *for a 24-story building* would put a finer point on it -- since the height seems like the most exceptional thing here, and a major factor that's likely to rile up neighbors.

In terms of overall housing, it is very space efficient. On the other hand, there are many developments that have more units in similar or less space. Onyx is 250 units on 4.6 acres with a max height of 6 stories -- barely less density of households at 1/4 the height. (I assume the Estelle Edina units will be fairly large, so I'm sure FAR is higher.)

[twinkess]

Someone check my math here but if you want to argue density wouldn't 7200 France be just as if not a hair more dense? 55 . 3 units per acre vs 54.3 for Onyx?

(also i've got a headache so ignore if I'm off base)

[sdho]

Someone check my math here but if you want to argue density wouldn't 7200 France be just as if not a hair more dense? 55 . 3 units per acre vs 54.3 for Onyx?

(also i've got a headache so ignore if I'm off base)

That's probably right. I just happened to have Onyx info handy.

[mattaudio]

Southdale J.C. Penney is closing. http://www.startribune.com/j-c-penney-w ... 425937183/

[Anondson]

BUT THERE'S SO MUCH TRAFFUC!

[mattaudio]

I will say, the only reason I go to Southdale (about once a year) is to buy a new stack of Stafford large extra-long undershirts. There is no compare. Now I will have to combine a J.C. Penneys run with my thrice-annual pilgrimage to the Burnsville Costco.

Back to Southdale - I wonder if the value of the store's real estate was the deciding factor here, given the redevelopment potential.

[Anondson]

We just bought our dryer there when they started selling appliances. Great sales person. I hope he's kept at another location.

[mattaudio]

Article updated:

Life Time, the Chanhassen-based fitness company, plans to move into the Penney’s space at Southdale with a 120,000-square-foot athletic center. The center is reported to include a rooftop pool.

[MNdible]

I wonder if the value of the store's real estate was the deciding factor here, given the redevelopment potential.

Yes, that's definitely my take as well. Just like Sears-Kmart, JCP is now just a real estate holding company, and any piece of property they own is available for purchase if the price is right.

(From what I understand, that's also a big part of LifeTime's business model.)

[Anondson]

Strib story on how Edina's council is lukewarm to the condo towers replacing the two banks across from Galleria. http://www.startribune.com/edina-counci ... 427094031/

Just did some research, comparing traffic levels around Southdale in 2000 to the most recent MNDOT data I could find.

• In 2000 France Ave had: 31,200 cars, today its 27,524.

• In 2000 York Ave had 26,500 cars, today its 19,857 cars.

• In 2000 66th St had 20,100 cars, today its 15,728 cars.

• In 2000 70th St has 18,000 cars, today its 10,764 cars.

I might have eyeballed the numbers badly, but here we have data for people who claim traffic is increased around Southdale and there is no more room in Edina for more people.