Southdale Area Development - Edina

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Anondson
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 12th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Demo progress today. Lots of kids brought to the mall are gawking at the bigger machines crunching and scraping.
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 12th, 2018, 1:29 pm

Can't blame those kiddos.....I'd be doing the same thing!

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 12th, 2018, 1:50 pm

Yup, walking away gawking over my shoulder had me bounce off a couple cars.

It’s not every day a mall department store is knocked down in Minnesota.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mister.shoes » March 12th, 2018, 9:16 pm

Haven't looked too hard, but can't find the answer to this question: are they knocking the whole thing down or just gutting and re-using the steel skeleton?
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 12th, 2018, 9:37 pm

I haven’t found anything definitive, but most that I read has implied at times the whole thing is getting knocked down. I found this page on the architect’s website.

http://rsparch.com/2017/12/21/reviving- ... dest-mall/
Working together with the Southdale and Life Time, RSP’s goal is activation on-site by energizing the customer arrival and encouraging greater connectivity to the mall. Our team will redevelop the empty JC Penney anchor and transform it into two separate buildings. One building will become the 120,000 SF Life Time Club to include their fitness center, a spa, café, a kid’s activity area plus a rooftop pool. The adjacent 60,000 SF building will make way for Life Time’s coworking space and indoor turf facility for indoor soccer and other sports.

Recognizing the mall’s value in the community, the City of Edina has identified Southdale Center as a key element in a part of a larger municipal master plan. The reimagined shopping center will create a downtown live, work, shop and play environment. Already, new condos and high scale apartment buildings are being built within walking distance of the mall. Complemented by pedestrian- and bike-friendly thoroughfares, these additions are improving the pedestrian experience and connectivity. The City appreciates that developers like Simon Property Group (Southdale Center’s owner) are committed to enhancing the mall over time and differentiating the landscape around it.

“Connected by a glass enclosed winter-garden atrium and exterior plaza, the new space will appeal to guests of all ages and increase traffic to the rest of the historic mall. This redevelopment will enhance the blank façade of the closing anchor and deliver attractive outward facing mixed-use buildings that will engage and enhance the community,” said Hysjulien.
It seems to me if they are putting up two buildings in place of the current one, that isn’t a reuse of the old shell.

But at the same time, the dimensions of everything look like an uncanny reuse. Plus they describe “enhancing the blank façade of the closing anchor” making it outward facing ... well this reads like there is at least reuse going on. Shr

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby BenFranske » March 12th, 2018, 11:09 pm

From what I've read I understood it to be a complete teardown and new buildings. See also:
Connected by a glass enclosed winter-garden atrium and exterior plaza, the new space will appeal to guests of all ages and increase traffic to the rest of the historic mall.
I think they are building freestanding buildings separated from the mall by a plaza (a not insignificant amount of space). There will be a breezeway connecting them. Think of it like a skyway to another building or the connections between MOA and the parking ramps. This is quite a bit different arrangement than JC Penny had where it was truly an anchor building with a common wall to the rest of the mall.

Personally I think it's a little silly, either you want to be part of the mall or you don't. My guess is Lifetime wanted to be separate but wanted the location and the mall wanted a connection so they can remain a mall and not just a property owner (see all the other development at Southdale which is completely disconnected from the mall). Even the early 2000's restaurant and theater addition isn't really part of the mall it's a long hallway to the rest of the mall. I'd say the last true addition to the mall was when Dayton's built their new store in the 90s and the mall converted the old Dayton's space into small shop retail.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 13th, 2018, 6:33 am

The “connected by an atrium“ I believe refers to the two new buildings being linked by an atrium, not the mall linked to Lifetime by an atrium. You can see what this refers to in the images.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby BenFranske » March 13th, 2018, 8:51 am

You're right. I found an older article explaining. It will be entirely separate, no connection to the mall at all. I thought I had read something along those lines.
Life Time, which will not have an entrance into the mall, is known for including its own assortment of mall-like services such as restaurants, retail, spas and child care.

The new location will not take up the entire J.C. Penney footprint. “Some of the space will be an open air pedestrian plaza,” said Michael McCarty, executive vice president of development operations at Simon Property Group, which owns Southdale.
http://www.startribune.com/life-time-s- ... 426846981/

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » March 13th, 2018, 9:21 am

If it's entirely separate with no connection to the mall, then it's a shame they're building it tight up against the mall rather than as a human-scale development that's tight up to a street.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby twincitizen » March 13th, 2018, 10:43 am

Seconded. Simon Properties was on a roll with One Southdale Place in the SE corner, the hotel in the NE corner, and whichever bougie home store is going in the SW corner. Cut to now they're allowing dumb stuff like the tiny standalone burger place in the NW corner and this apparently half-baked LifeTime situation.

There was no greater potential on this site for doing some street grid repair and creating a massive development opportunity than tearing down JCP and its parking deck, exposing the 2-story food court area to view from the outside, with a new internal street running tight along that newly exposed food court frontage. (I know the food court is on the second floor, I'm referring to that portion of the building)

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 13th, 2018, 1:36 pm

That would and also given a more prominent entrance to the Hennepin Government Services (which is on the ground floor) than the tucked-into-the-corner entrance.

Still, I don’t believe tearing down the parking structure was likely because it looks like it’ll be also used by the new hotel.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » March 14th, 2018, 11:42 pm

I wonder if the fact that LifeTime Fitness is not attached to the mall is part of their grand plan to have a street/woonerf system eventually? The Southdale Area Plan calls for some sort of street system with smaller blocks. Maybe the mall will be replaced in bits & pieces, and an urban street grid will rise in its place.

I can dream.

On the one hand, Hennepin Gov’t Services is on the down low, but then that’s exactly where a retail center would want it to be, i.e., not in valuable retail space.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » March 15th, 2018, 2:48 pm

Multimodal wrote:
March 14th, 2018, 11:42 pm
I wonder if the fact that LifeTime Fitness is not attached to the mall is part of their grand plan to have a street/woonerf system eventually? The Southdale Area Plan calls for some sort of street system with smaller blocks. Maybe the mall will be replaced in bits & pieces, and an urban street grid will rise in its place.

I can dream.

On the one hand, Hennepin Gov’t Services is on the down low, but then that’s exactly where a retail center would want it to be, i.e., not in valuable retail space.
One thing that is very unclear to me from the Southdale Area Plan is that if they literally intend streets to follow that grid, or a rough network of driveways, private drives, etc, that sort of form a de-facto grid. I'd love if it the goal were true public streets, but I suspect it will be more like a rough network of public and private "ways"

Also agree that sticking Lifetime to the mall is bizarre if they're not reusing JCP structure. My understanding is that Lifetime's desire is to have this be their most expensive "diamond" level club (like Minneapolis Athletic Club and Eden Prairie Athletic). I think it's kind of a prestige loss to be an annex on a so-so regional mall.

As for urbanism, Lifetime isn't known for caring much about it. It will probably still be closer to the street than many of their newly built clubs. They do have a couple of nice projects, like one in Houston that's fairly urban. But their main market niche is massive, exurban sites that are entirely driving-oriented. (Lakeville and Chanhassen are the best examples in the MSP area)

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 16th, 2018, 10:18 am

Fences were almost completed around the Shake Shack corner.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » March 16th, 2018, 8:50 pm

sdho wrote:One thing that is very unclear to me from the Southdale Area Plan is that if they literally intend streets to follow that grid, or a rough network of driveways, private drives, etc, that sort of form a de-facto grid. I'd love if it the goal were true public streets, but I suspect it will be more like a rough network of public and private "ways"
I believe they are to be actual streets, but I‘m not 100% sure. I know that during city council deliberations, there were concerns that the west side of the proposed Hazelton Apartments did not feature housing facing the street which will almost certainly be there someday (it’s a parking lot now, next to Guitar Center).

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Multimodal » March 16th, 2018, 8:53 pm

Anondson wrote:Fences were almost completed around the Shake Shack corner.
Such a weird, low-density use.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » March 17th, 2018, 10:04 pm

Multimodal wrote:
March 16th, 2018, 8:53 pm
Anondson wrote:Fences were almost completed around the Shake Shack corner.
Such a weird, low-density use.
Yeah that is shockingly bad after pretty good stuff on three other corners. Hope the intent is that it is a temporary use until something changes with leaseholder sightline terms or whatever.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » March 17th, 2018, 10:05 pm

Also there is simply something wrong in a system that allows developments like Shake Shack basically as of right but requires comprehensive plan amendments (that they fail to get) for something like Estelle.

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Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 17th, 2018, 10:16 pm

Shadows are traumatic to single family homes and rivers, lanes and parks.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » March 17th, 2018, 10:22 pm

Demo update: steel structure is coming down now too.

Image

The old Best Buy site development has hole excavation well underway. As does the RH Gallery by the water tower.

The hotel is having materials installed on the exterior walls.


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