Southdale Area Development - Edina

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mattaudio
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » May 2nd, 2019, 9:37 am

I feel like Southdale is confused... is it a superblock of well-integrated and varied land uses? Or is it a shopping mall surrounded by a moat of surface parking? Those visions are not compatible. We need to pick one and move forward.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mister.shoes » May 2nd, 2019, 10:41 am

The east half seems to be moving toward the former. The west half appears to have no interest in getting better.
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » May 2nd, 2019, 12:54 pm

I’m not worried with the County Library system. I’m worried about Simon, the mall owner who predictably shoots for mediocre small step outcomes.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Carlos » May 2nd, 2019, 12:57 pm

Because the potential library building would be connected to the mall, I have reservations about architecture and even bigger reservations about the "bike and pedestrian access" slice of things but hey, hope springs eternal. Maybe if enough people talk about those concerns at the Open Houses, it will get addressed.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Tiller » May 2nd, 2019, 7:14 pm

How about "pedestrian access from the whole parking lot, bike access from select spots"

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » May 18th, 2019, 6:42 pm

Nearly a certainty the Southdale County Library will relocate to a new space where Herberger’s used to be. Opening in 2022.

http://www.startribune.com/hennepin-cou ... 510121512/

Herberger’s space will be torn down and a new shell built. Green space on the roof.
The cost of renovating and leasing the Herberger’s site will be significantly less than construction of a new building at the current site, which was estimated at nearly $50 million, said Margo Geffen, the county’s facility services director.

Expected rent at Southdale will be $562,600 for each of the first five years, with increases for the following 15 years.

Simon Property Group, Southdale Center’s developer, will demolish Herberger’s and build the exterior frame of the library. It will be about 57,000 square feet, comparable to the York Avenue location, Geffen said.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby twincitizen » May 20th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Regardless of how you feel about the mall vs. the current site being chosen, it is appalling how the County/Library & City of Edina conducted a year+ of public engagement focused on the redevelopment of the existing site (including new library building), and then just quietly discarded all of that work and input and chose the mall location with zero public input. No other locations were considered or even discussed during the earlier engagement process. This switch to Southdale was done behind closed doors without ever reengaging stakeholders one iota. I don't have a personal stake in it, but that's pretty frustrating to watch from the sidelines.

As others have said, there's a big opportunity here to make lemonade though, by getting high quality bike and ped access to the library, not only through the Southdale parking lot, but across York Ave as well. It's going to take some lobbying of the Hennepin County board and Edina City Council though. I really doubt anything worthwhile will happen automatically without some serious push on the electeds involved.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » May 20th, 2019, 6:50 pm

Very great point about the shift after so much public engagement.

I appreciate very much the saving money, I hope some of the savings can go back into making it a centerpiece for the community. I want people involved in decision making to have to keep the proposals at Rosedale in mind for the type of use of space that are possible.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » May 23rd, 2019, 11:46 am

Too bad this wasn't planned at the same time as Lifetime (or Shake Shack for that matter) as there would have been a significant opportunity to sort of regrid part of the Southdale superblock. A 67th St or Beard Ave could have meandered through the space.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » May 23rd, 2019, 4:59 pm

twincitizen wrote:
May 20th, 2019, 5:33 pm
Regardless of how you feel about the mall vs. the current site being chosen, it is appalling how the County/Library & City of Edina conducted a year+ of public engagement focused on the redevelopment of the existing site (including new library building), and then just quietly discarded all of that work and input and chose the mall location with zero public input. No other locations were considered or even discussed during the earlier engagement process. This switch to Southdale was done behind closed doors without ever reengaging stakeholders one iota. I don't have a personal stake in it, but that's pretty frustrating to watch from the sidelines.
This, 100%. It's so much worse to thoroughly engage the public and ask their opinion, only to completely discard that process when a better option came along, and sign on the dotted line without any re-engagement. It would have been less egregious to say from the get-go that library patrons, neighbors, etc should have no input in the future of their library. I have been surprised to hear from a friend serving on the library board that the citizen library board also has near-zero say in facilities, and didn't know about this either. The County Board manages all the capital decisions directly.
mattaudio wrote:
May 23rd, 2019, 11:46 am
Too bad this wasn't planned at the same time as Lifetime (or Shake Shack for that matter) as there would have been a significant opportunity to sort of regrid part of the Southdale superblock. A 67th St or Beard Ave could have meandered through the space.
Agreed. I remain curious how Edina will implement their "grid" vision for Southdale -- but it seems highly likely to come mostly in the form of private drives, parking lot design, etc.

There is already a private Beard/Chowen Ave between 69th and Hazelton. Would have been great to wind it up to 66th and Drew.

I also really hope Edina will start naming these streets (preferably using the Minneapolis named grid Edina already follows to the north). Private drive or not, it would much improve navigation. Richfield has several named private streets, mostly adhering to grid. Examples: Woodlake Dr between 65th and 66th; Grand and Pleasant Aves between 66th and 67th; 67th between Harriet and Pleasant; and Tom Wood Way [Harriet Ave] between 77th and 78th.

Those don't provide the same value as a real public street -- but they are much better than unnamed access aisles.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » May 23rd, 2019, 5:02 pm

And, speaking of private drives, really hope we can get some east-west connections between York and Xerxes in the future (south of 66th), at least for people walking and biking. 69th and 70th are the only vehicular accesses between 66th and 76th. There's a good bike-ped connection at 73rd (on the Edina side, but not direct to Richfield side). And there's a very meh private pedestrian connection through the Onyx at 67th -- comically narrow, non-ADA-compliant paths that are half covered by car hoods.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Carlos » May 29th, 2019, 1:26 pm

Preliminary vision for Southdale Library at the mall, including their "conceptual pedestrian/bike trail" connecting the library to the street.

https://www.hclib.org/-/media/Hennepin- ... ay2019.pdf

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Qhaberl » May 29th, 2019, 1:36 pm

Still don’t like it. I get that they’re trying to transform Southdale, but there’s absolutely no reason for the library to be at the back of the parking lot.

The bike and pedestrian connection is great, but I have no guarantee as to what form it will take. I think they’re making a huge mistake in not building a new beautiful library at the old location. The library could sit on the former lot, but be situated directly at sidewalk level.


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mattaudio
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » May 29th, 2019, 1:45 pm

The concept drawing on p 13 of that PDF shows a grocery alongside the Southdale Library. Anyone know more about that concept? There was originally a Red Owl at Southdale, right?

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby MNdible » May 29th, 2019, 1:51 pm

The other rendering in the packet on page 12 has a sign that says "Markets" with another sign above it that appears to be redacted. Does anybody recognize that signmark?

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Qhaberl » May 29th, 2019, 1:56 pm

Not saying that this is what it will end up being, but a strip of marking on concrete indicating it as a bicycle/pedestrian trail, does not count. You’re still having to go through the same old parking lot.


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mattaudio
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » May 30th, 2019, 7:43 am

Kowalski's Market(s) has a similar black bar in their store signage. "MARKET" on a black bar under a larger Kowalksi's above. Yet most of their company branding that's not signing a particular store uses "MARKETS" plural.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mattaudio » May 30th, 2019, 7:44 am

mattaudio wrote:
May 30th, 2019, 7:43 am
Kowalski's Market(s) has a similar black bar in their store signage. "MARKET" on a black bar under a larger Kowalksi's above. Yet most of their company branding that's not signing a particular store uses "MARKETS" plural.
And this article from 2018 says:
Kowalski’s Markets CEO Kris Kowalski Christiansen tells us nothing is set in stone, but the local grocery outfit with quality products that include local makers, is actively looking in Edina, Wayzata and Northeast Minneapolis for possible new markets. This comes on the heels of a major expansion of the Uptown store.
https://www.twincities.com/2018/07/17/n ... kowalskis/

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » June 5th, 2019, 8:07 pm

Rojo closing the Southdale location.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... hdale.html

Citing slowing Southdale traffic plus replacement of the department store space with a library.
“I just don’t think that’s going to draw a lot of people, at least not our customer,” said McDermott, who was skeptical of other recent changes at the mall.
I have been critical of the mall’s owner being so cautiously slow and small at reinventing for so long. Rosedale’s change to their Herberger’s space is the right scale.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby sdho » June 5th, 2019, 11:05 pm

Seems like there would be a high crossover between people who go to Lifetime Fitness and people who go to Rojo.

I'm not really happy about the library thing from the library perspective, but it seems like a win for the mall. How could anything draw fewer people than a dying Herberger's?


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