Richfield - 66th Street - General Topics

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acs
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby acs » November 26th, 2014, 7:23 am

New story on the proposal to take homes in the reconstruction process. The article unfairly makes it seem like bike lanes and sidewalks are what are driving this, not the dedicated left turn lanes.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/283919191.html

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 26th, 2014, 1:55 pm

New story on the proposal to take homes in the reconstruction process. The article unfairly makes it seem like bike lanes and sidewalks are what are driving this, not the dedicated left turn lanes.
Really? It didn't seem that bad to me. Except this one line: "The homes will make way for a rebuilt 66th Street that city officials say will be safer, prettier and friendlier to pedestrians and cyclists."

That is, safer and "prettier" for EVERYONE, as well as friendlier to pedestrians and bicyclists. Although the term prettier seems to suggest that trees, green space, elements of a great place are just vanities.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » December 8th, 2014, 12:24 pm

The Richfield City Council will be considering approval of Concept 4B between 35W and Penn tomorrow night, as well as a "low-impact" design (no dedicated bike space) west of Penn.

The 35W-Penn section will be controversial, since it involves taking the 18 homes. There are 5 council votes (4 CMs and the mayor). Of the 5, two have expressed support of "doing it right" and taking the homes if necessary. Two have expressed strong opposition to taking the homes, although more recent information about how impactful *not* taking the homes would have may have changed that. One has not made any public statements that I know of.

Meeting is:

Tuesday, December 9th - 7:00p
Richfield City Hall
6700 Portland Ave S

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » December 9th, 2014, 11:14 pm

Richfield City Council approved Concept 4B between 35W and Penn tonight, in a 3-2 vote. Mayor Goettel and the Ward 1 rep, Pat Elliot, voted against the widening. Both spoke strongly in favor of a trial 3-lane design (temporary restriping to see what would happen). A great idea, but the political will for that seems to be too little too late.

Public comment at the meeting was surprisingly evenly split. I expected those opposed, although they represent a minority of the city, to be able to round up more people to speak. Several residents who live on 66th on the north side spoke in favor of the widening.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby blobs » December 14th, 2014, 10:20 pm

This road is super wide already and there's hardly ever any traffic on it. Surely 3 lanes would have been sufficient with street parking!! Grr!!

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » December 15th, 2014, 12:52 pm

This road is super wide already and there's hardly ever any traffic on it. Surely 3 lanes would have been sufficient with street parking!! Grr!!
You might be thinking of the section west of Penn -- which does have less traffic, and is hugely wide right now, and also gets the worst speeding. That will be narrowed slightly (although the same number of lanes will exist). The section being widened is Penn-35W.

West of Penn, it's likely it will be narrowed to 3 lanes, plus buffered bike lanes (and possibly parking on one side) in the future. If they really wanted to, traffic would probably be fine to do that now.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby twincitizen » December 23rd, 2014, 1:22 pm

The recent F&C story on 66th Street states the bulk of the construction work is slated for 2017, finishing up in 2018. The project won't even go out to bid until spring-summer 2016, with prep work commencing in fall 2016. I guess I was under the impression that heavy work would begin 2016 and wrap up 2017.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » December 23rd, 2014, 9:30 pm

The recent F&C story on 66th Street states the bulk of the construction work is slated for 2017, finishing up in 2018. The project won't even go out to bid until spring-summer 2016, with prep work commencing in fall 2016. I guess I was under the impression that heavy work would begin 2016 and wrap up 2017.
The impression Hennepin County has given in the past is that it would be split east/west (likely with the east section done in 2016 and west in 2017). Although I was aware some sections would remain untouched in 2016, I'm surprised that the article states nothing major would happen in '16. In particular, since Hennepin County has been emphasizing that they need final approvals in the next month or so. Does it really take almost 18 months to finish design?

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » February 22nd, 2015, 9:35 pm

City Council will be deciding whether or not to move forward with three roundabouts -- Nicollet, Lyndale, and a dogbone/dumbbell at 35W -- this Tuesday.

This could be fairly precedent-setting for the metro, as these (especially Lyndale) would likely be the most urban and highest-trafficked roundabouts in the metro. These would differ somewhat from the existing ones at Portland as the crosswalks would be set farther back, pedestrian flashers would be included, and the north-south legs would be only single lane (rather than double lane in all directions).

Here's an artist's rendition of Lyndale:

Image

And Nicollet:

Image

If you're interested in the meeting, it will be a work session at 5:45p and a council meeting at 7:00p this Tuesday the 24th at Richfield City Hall (6700 Portland).

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 22nd, 2015, 10:03 pm

Oh man, is that a cycle track in a roundabout? *hearteyesemoji*

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » February 22nd, 2015, 10:13 pm

Oh man, is that a cycle track in a roundabout? *hearteyesemoji*
Indeed it is! You can see in the Lyndale rendering how there will be a marked bike crossing adjacent to the crosswalk. They'll also have short ramps for vehicular cyclists who prefer to negotiate the roundabout as a vehicle. (You can see this in the Lyndale rendering, but it's currently shown too close. It will be set back farther.) The default bike behavior is to go around the perimeter, similar to that Dutch design.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 22nd, 2015, 10:25 pm

Looking closer at the bike crossing adjacent to the ped crossing on the Lyndale rendering, it looks like the cyclist on the left side of the picture will have to take a sharp left to continue through the roundabout. Any chance that will get smoothed out like the Amsterdam example I linked to?

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby blobs » February 22nd, 2015, 10:29 pm

Yes, thank you, more roundabouts please. Such a time saver.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » February 22nd, 2015, 10:36 pm

Looking closer at the bike crossing adjacent to the ped crossing on the Lyndale rendering, it looks like the cyclist on the left side of the picture will have to take a sharp left to continue through the roundabout. Any chance that will get smoothed out like the Amsterdam example I linked to?
Unfortunately, probably not. Half of this is intentional, half of it isn't.

The half that is intentional: it actually is desirable to make sure the cyclist has to slow down quite a bit before crossing. Although they have right-of-way, it could be dangerous for them to take the crossing at full speed. The more timid cyclist may also come to a stop anyway at these crossings so they can hit the button to active the flashers.

The half that isn't intentional: Lyndale runs at a diagonal where it meets 66th, and that particular corner is rather acute, and there is a building (currently under construction) right at the corner. So doing a totally smooth direction would be hard without acquiring more right-of-way. At both 35W and Nicollet, this flow will feel more natural than what's pictured here.

I continue to nag staff to be sure the crossing angle is desirable (so you're not looking back over your shoulder to check that cars are stopping). Details I'm confident will be ironed out -- but right now the question is just roundabouts vs signals.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mister.shoes » February 23rd, 2015, 10:33 am

Here's an artist's rendition of Lyndale:

Image
It appears they're predicting a new building in the parking lot of the Petco/FedEx/Champp's strip mall. Is that actually happening or just a dream?
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby trigonalmayhem » February 23rd, 2015, 10:35 am

The fact that we still think widening streets is a good idea in the 21st century is pretty depressing. That they'd take houses to do it is even moreso.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mattaudio » February 23rd, 2015, 10:36 am

Also, that image above is two lanes, 66th Street, correct? Why didn't they show lane striping in the rendering?

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » February 23rd, 2015, 11:03 am

Also, that image above is two lanes, 66th Street, correct? Why didn't they show lane striping in the rendering?
Good question. It is indeed two lanes, but I suppose the artist omitted details like lane lines and yield signs to keep the focus on the more aesthetic elements and the general look/feel.

However, of course, one always needs to take these renderings with a grain of salt. I mean, just look how much these shadow people love walking along American Boulevard in the Penn-American plan:

Image

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby BoredAgain » February 23rd, 2015, 12:55 pm

City Council will be deciding whether or not to move forward with three roundabouts -- Nicollet, Lyndale, and a dogbone/dumbbell at 35W -- this Tuesday.
Have they released any details on the dogbone/dumbbell for the 35W intersection(s)? I really wanted this to happen at 35W/Lake when they were planning the new transit station at that intersection. I think it would have greatly reduced queuing for the on-ramps and shortened pedestrian crossing distances. I think I sent that suggestion in too late in the process, but I doubt it would have been considered anyway. Instead, they are just making the turn-lanes even longer, which will not allow traffic get out of the way any more quickly.

Now, I'm just curious as to how they are planning to do it here. If successful, then it could point a way for future projects.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » February 23rd, 2015, 1:39 pm

Have they released any details on the dogbone/dumbbell for the 35W intersection(s)? I really wanted this to happen at 35W/Lake when they were planning the new transit station at that intersection. I think it would have greatly reduced queuing for the on-ramps and shortened pedestrian crossing distances. I think I sent that suggestion in too late in the process, but I doubt it would have been considered anyway. Instead, they are just making the turn-lanes even longer, which will not allow traffic get out of the way any more quickly.

Now, I'm just curious as to how they are planning to do it here. If successful, then it could point a way for future projects.
Yeah I'm very hopeful that the 35W/66th interchange will help set the standard for high-volume urban interchanges. The go-to for the past decade or two has been a massive diamond (see Cedar Fwy and E 66th St) or a SPUI (see Lake/Hiawatha, Lyndale/494, and Penn/494). Both require huge, expensive bridges (especially SPUI), the diamond is tedious to get through, and the SPUI is awful for pedestrians. I think it would be awesome if it set the stage for Lake St/35W; however, since 66th won't be completely done till 2018, it may to be too late to change the design at Lake St.

City staff posted a lengthy PDF including sketches of that dumbbell and background info here: http://ci.richfield.mn.us/modules/showd ... entid=6355. You can see the 66th St interchange on page 8. As you can see the space used under the bridge is significantly less, and even the impacts on the edges aren't too bad. However, city staff currently want to demolish the home at the NE corner, so that the alley can be rerouted. (They don't like dead-end alleys for snow clearing.)


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