Richfield - 66th Street - General Topics

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Tcmetro
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby Tcmetro » September 30th, 2014, 10:32 am

I have a few thoughts as well:

- I like the idea of the on-street parking in the 12th Av-Bloomington area. Perhaps it will make the area more attractive for more traditional low-rise commercial developments.

- I think the addition of the medians between Columbus and 11th will work against calming the street. The segment feels low traffic enough to allow left turns from WB 66th to all the SB streets, and the opposite movement as well.

- 66th should be narrowed to one through lane at the roundabout at Portland. One lane would be for right turns, and the other would be for going through and turning left.

- I am not in favor of the roundabout option at Nicollet. The signalized crosswalks are, IMO, better for the amount of pedestrians moving through the intersection. Additionally, I think the geometries of the standard intersection are more friendly to potential redevelopment fronting the street.

- Potential to slim 66th down to one lane from Nicollet to Lyndale, with dedicated left and right turn lanes where needed.

- Not in favor of roundabouts at Lyndale or 35W because of the issues for pedestrians transferring between the 515 and the 4 and the Orange Line.

- Need to make 35W intersection more pedestrian friendly in anticipation of the Orange Line BRT.

EDIT: Annnnnd, it looks like co-lumbus is a banned word on the forum...

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sdho
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » September 30th, 2014, 10:41 am

I think the addition of the medians between Schmalumbus and 11th will work against calming the street. The segment feels low traffic enough to allow left turns from WB 66th to all the SB streets, and the opposite movement as well.
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on the medians -- because I'm actually hoping to see medians for more of the length. Since neither Hennepin County nor Richfield are fond of two-lane segments (where people make left turns from the only through lane), the alternative would probably be an open center turn lane -- like on Portland Avenue today.

The trouble with that it that it doesn't provide any refuge for pedestrians crossing (which is important through the whole corridor, but especially to access the park). It also means that instead of grass and trees in the middle, you just have more asphalt. To a motorist, you have a wide-open expanse of ~37 feet of asphalt curb-to-curb (3x 11 ft lanes plus "curb reaction distance) rather than less than half that amount with a median.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby Tcmetro » September 30th, 2014, 11:14 am

Perhaps the medians don't need to be completely removed, but I think that perhaps a short left turn lane (50 ft. or so) should be included for neighborhood access. Certainly, a crosswalk with a refuge could be accommodated on the west side at these intersections.

Perhaps similar short medians that still provide access could be added on the Nicollet-Portland segment as well.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mattaudio » September 30th, 2014, 11:19 am

Seems like the beauty of having T intersections and no grid between Portland and 11th is that you could have short LTLs westbound on 66th, with medians on the rest of it. This would provide refuge for people crossing to Veterans Park on the west side of the intersection.

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mister.shoes
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mister.shoes » September 30th, 2014, 11:26 am

Why is the left turn lane from WB 66th to Elliot twice as long as the one from EB 66th to 11th?

Edit: Oh wait, I see now that there's an apartment on 10th that needs its curb cut. Too bad access for that building can't be through the parking lot for the one on Elliot.
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sdho
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » September 30th, 2014, 11:30 am

Perhaps the medians don't need to be completely removed, but I think that perhaps a short left turn lane (50 ft. or so) should be included for neighborhood access. Certainly, a crosswalk with a refuge could be accommodated on the west side at these intersections.

Perhaps similar short medians that still provide access could be added on the Nicollet-Portland segment as well.
That's basically what was done on Lyndale between 31st and 38th, and it seems to work well there. At Veterans Park, what you propose might work. But, say, between Nicollet-Portland, it's a bit harder. The trouble is that east-west blocks are much shorter -- with even 50' turn lanes (plus throat), 50% or more of the median space is lost to turn lanes. It makes it more like islands in the street, and less like a continuous median.

Where there is a need to turn both north and south, of course, we also can't do a full refuge, since both sides would have left-turn lanes. I think the best compromise is probably doing left-turn lanes/median cuts every other block.

EDIT: I wouldn't read too much into the details of the current median. I'm told they just threw it in to start discussion of where we want medians. Many options on the table.

mattaudio
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mattaudio » September 30th, 2014, 11:32 am

Or we could do a full refuge at every other block, with RIRO access to the sidestreet. This works just fine on bike blvds in Minneapolis.

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Re: Lyndale Garden Center Site - Richfield

Postby uptown82 » October 8th, 2014, 1:38 pm

They have the fences up for construction of the Carribou /Myburger building. The cit says construction expected to be completed by spring.

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Re: Lyndale Garden Center Site - Richfield

Postby blobs » October 8th, 2014, 9:29 pm

Regarding the striping configuration on Lyndale: Richfield is restriping Lyndale between 64th and 66th (adjacent to this development) to eliminate one of the through lanes and create bike lanes and on-street parking.
Wow, this is great news! And on-street parking, it's about time.
Unfortunately, no plans to lower the 35 mph speed limit on any street, even on 66th where the city and county are doing a complete reconstruction.
Interesting point. Living in the area I notice some people treat 35 mph as a 30 mph limit and some treat it as a 40 mph limit. Probably 30 mph seems more appropriate. I mean once you cross to S Mpls it is 30 so why not this area too.

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Re: Lyndale Garden Center Site - Richfield

Postby uptown82 » November 4th, 2014, 2:01 pm


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Re: Lyndale Garden Center Site - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 5th, 2014, 6:07 pm

Yup, the developer was just at Richfield City Council asking for more time to act on their permit. The fact that Wellington is moving forward with the rest of their development is a good sign for the area, but Lyndale Gardens was really a dramatically more thoughtful development, and I really hope Cornerstone can get things lined up to make it happen.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 7th, 2014, 3:37 pm

The Richfield Transportation Commission voted on Wednesday to support the full cycletrack design between Oliver and 35W (as well as the already-approved cycletrack from 35W to Richfield Pkwy. This will go to another public meeting next week (Thursday, 4-7p, Woodlake Nature Center), and will have to be approved by the council as well.

Doing this means removing the 18 homes, so naturally there was resistance in the audience. Homeowners were present, although nobody spoke who was directly affected. At least one woman present -- who didn't speak -- did live in one of the 18 homes, but mostly they were people from nearby in the neighborhood, or who live directly on the section west of Penn, where no homes will be taken. I felt some of the points made -- the personal connection, the delicate balance of a neighborhood -- but there seemed to be a lot of anti-tax, anti-spending, and anti-bike rhetoric mixed into it. Regardless, the commission seemed to value public mobility and safety over the 18 homes.

In deference to the neighborhood, though, they won't extend the cycletrack all the way to the project limits at Xerxes. Even though the new street in that section will take up the exact same amount of space and homeowners will get 6' of green boulevard space, free, already planted for them, and they won't pay any assessment for brand new street, sidewalk, curbs, lighting, and landscaping, they still seem disgruntled about the project.

The Commission also approved bringing new roundabouts for public feedback. Staff recommend roundabouts at 35W (dumbbell interchange), Lyndale, and Nicollet.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby seanrichardryan » November 7th, 2014, 3:52 pm

Are there maps posted somewhere?
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 7th, 2014, 3:55 pm

Are there maps posted somewhere?
Best resource is here: http://richfieldsweetstreets.org/66thst ... nstruction. You can see the recommended layout east of 35W, and the possible layouts to the west. Again the recommended layouts are 4B Penn-35W and Minimum Impact Xerxes-Penn.

Note that a lot of the details -- like junction design, cycletrack layout at junctions, and median placement -- are just thrown in there for now. Much is still to be determined.

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mister.shoes
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mister.shoes » November 7th, 2014, 4:01 pm

Doing this means removing the 18 homes...
Previous to today, I hadn't gotten around to looking at which homes were going away. Now I see that it's the entire south side of 66th. I've always wondered what the story was behind this one with the Bavarian style. I see now that it was built in 1975, meaning that "charm" is likely tacky at best. Huh. Learned something new today.
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 7th, 2014, 4:08 pm

Previous to today, I hadn't gotten around to looking at which homes were going away. Now I see that it's the entire south side of 66th. I've always wondered what the story was behind this one with the Bavarian style. I see now that it was built in 1975, meaning that "charm" is likely tacky at best. Huh. Learned something new today.
Apparently it was built by a Vikings player -- and, yes, in 1975. I actually love this thing, it's a cool landmark, if not exactly my taste.

The silver lining of its removal would be that the park behind it will actually be visible from 66th, which will make it more accessible and civic-feeling. Currently, you'd never go back there unless you knew it was there (down that asphalt path that could just as easily be a driveway or alley).

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mister.shoes » November 7th, 2014, 9:18 pm

I actually love this thing, it's a cool landmark, if not exactly my taste.
Ditto! It's impossible to miss when driving that street. At first glance, it makes one think that it's *got* to be one of the oldest houses in Richfield. Then upon closer inspection, one realizes that there's no way a house with 2+ garage stalls would be more than a few decades old (the third stall is obviously an addition). And as odd as the Bavarian style is on that place, someone clearly had a real passion for it and was willing to spend a lot of money for trimmings like those. The checkerboard pattern on the turret-shaped entry is my favorite part.
The silver lining of its removal would be that the park behind it will actually be visible from 66th, which will make it more accessible and civic-feeling. Currently, you'd never go back there unless you knew it was there (down that asphalt path that could just as easily be a driveway or alley).
The only reason I knew of that park was because we have friends who used to live on the 6900 block of James Ave. I didn't even bother looking up directions the first time we went to visit, figuring the street grid would be my friend. Got denied on James and confused on Knox, but we made it eventually!
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sdho
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby sdho » November 7th, 2014, 11:24 pm

At first glance, it makes one think that it's *got* to be one of the oldest houses in Richfield.
I'm digressing, but for truer old house gazing, I assume you've been around the Oak Grove subdivision? I swear the 20s was like the best time for single-family residential development, judging by Oak Grove, Country Club District in Edina, and Tangletown in Minneapolis. Pleasant scale, beautiful structure, tree-lined, windy streets. One home -- not the oldest, but arguably the most spectacular historic home in Richfield -- is from 1858 and backs onto Woodlake: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8730577 ... 21dhUA!2e0. The rest of the neighbors are mostly from the 20s, with a few postwar additions filling gaps.

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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby ztr421 » November 10th, 2014, 11:14 am


Previous to today, I hadn't gotten around to looking at which homes were going away. Now I see that it's the entire south side of 66th. I've always wondered what the story was behind this one with the Bavarian style. I see now that it was built in 1975, meaning that "charm" is likely tacky at best. Huh. Learned something new today.
I grew up in Richfield and we took 66th Street between my parent's house and grandparent's house on a regular basis, and I remember watching as this house was built - and it was sort of crazy. The house was rebuilt at least two times before settling on this final structure. It would get pretty far along each time before they apparently grew to dislike the design, then they'd tear it down and start from scratch.

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mister.shoes
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Re: 66th Street - Richfield

Postby mister.shoes » November 10th, 2014, 12:07 pm


Previous to today, I hadn't gotten around to looking at which homes were going away. Now I see that it's the entire south side of 66th. I've always wondered what the story was behind this one with the Bavarian style. I see now that it was built in 1975, meaning that "charm" is likely tacky at best. Huh. Learned something new today.
I grew up in Richfield and we took 66th Street between my parent's house and grandparent's house on a regular basis, and I remember watching as this house was built - and it was sort of crazy. The house was rebuilt at least two times before settling on this final structure. It would get pretty far along each time before they apparently grew to dislike the design, then they'd tear it down and start from scratch.
*That* is a fascinating story and I love it so much. In that sense, the tear-down of the house is sad because they obviously cared a lot about getting it "right." Great info!
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