Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

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Anondson
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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby Anondson » August 22nd, 2016, 7:44 pm

A smallish Aldi would seem to fit Robbinsdale well and not be a massive box.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby mamundsen » August 22nd, 2016, 10:12 pm

There is a small Aldi (are they all small?) at Penn and Lowry in N Mpls. I don't think they would add a store this close.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby twincitizen » August 22nd, 2016, 10:29 pm

Fresh Thyme is building small-medium sized stores in mixed-use developments in Minneapolis, St. Louis Park and Bloomington. In fact, Bloomington's Penn American (minus the hotel) would actually be a good model for what could be done with this Robbinsdale site. That or, sans residential, something like Richfield's Lyndale Station (former Kmart site)

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby Mdcastle » August 23rd, 2016, 8:02 am

Isn't Fresh Thyme like Whole Foods in that they don't carry much for convenience food, and mainly sell "super deluxe mega organic farmer-reads-them-bedtime-stories tomatoes" instead of "tomatoes". Aldi might be a better fit (aren't the prices cheaper than Cub's even), but Aldi's been in this area ever since Rainbow closed, and has there been any interest by developers or residents?

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » August 24th, 2016, 9:06 am

Friends of the Terrace group has retained the same lawyer who prevented destruction of Peavey Plaza to file a counter lawsuit halting demolition of the Terrace: http://www.startribune.com/as-robbinsda ... 391110101/

Mdcastle wrote:So where are the developers clamoring to build a small grocery store? Where are the residents asking for one? Since I doubt residents will pay for something more upscale than Cub, it would have to be cheaper than Cub which is going to be hard to do in a small store (except for apparently Trader Joes.
People have wanted a decent grocery store at that location since Rainbow closed. It's a good spot for one. But it doesn't need to come at the expense of the Terrace Theater.

Having attended the council meeting last night, as well as following this issue closely, I can say that an interested developer has already met with the mayor -- who would like to renovate the Terrace and has the interest of a smaller grocer for that site. Further, it's not like no one has tried to renovate or reopen the Terrace. Multiple proposals have been brought to Brixmor over the years, but they ignored anyone who wasn't either North Memorial or didn't have interest in the mall location. That is Brixmor's perogative, to be sure, but it is because of Brixmor's OWN incompetence that the building is at risk of demolition.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » August 24th, 2016, 9:27 am

Brixmor is the type of developer who shouldn't be owning property in urban areas. An outdated suburban business model with outstate profit motive.
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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby EOst » August 24th, 2016, 9:48 am

at40man wrote:Friends of the Terrace group has retained the same lawyer who prevented destruction of Peavey Plaza to file a counter lawsuit halting demolition of the Terrace: http://www.startribune.com/as-robbinsda ... 391110101/
Right on.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby amiller92 » August 24th, 2016, 10:04 am

Yay! Another opportunity for a judge to make (bad) policy instead of the democratics process!

Perhaps, like Peavey Plaza, the Terrace can also sit mostly untouched for four more years and counting.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby EOst » August 24th, 2016, 10:45 am

False dichotomy. It was a democratic process which created the historic preservation laws in the first place.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby amiller92 » August 24th, 2016, 10:57 am

EOst wrote:False dichotomy. It was a democratic process which created the historic preservation laws in the first place.
Yeah, and I hadn't previously look at the actual complaint/statute/decision and assumed it was a stretch to interpret it as applicable. Turns out it wasn't.

But you still have an undemocratic preservation process that can't be overturned by the democratically elected government. Which is not really a good thing.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » August 24th, 2016, 2:03 pm

amiller92 wrote: But you still have an undemocratic preservation process that can't be overturned by the democratically elected government. Which is not really a good thing.
Checks and balances. This is one of those "majority rule, minority rights" type situations. While it is the general ideal, I don't believe every aspect of every process needs to be democratic, and architectural preservation is one of those processes. The majority has had their say, and without a preservation process, we would see a lot more "destruction by mob rule" by people who don't care about any structure or thing more than 30 years old.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby amiller92 » August 24th, 2016, 2:40 pm

at40man wrote: This is one of those "majority rule, minority rights" type situations.
No, it isn't. There's no minority right being protected with preservation. "Liking old stuff" isn't a protected class, nor should it be.

Also, it's the opposite of checks and balances. Minnesota law apparently says there is no check on a historical resource designation once in place.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby EOst » August 24th, 2016, 3:36 pm

Under the same regime that powers our state's environmental laws, to much he same effect. What's your opinion of those?

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » August 24th, 2016, 4:31 pm

amiller92 wrote:
at40man wrote: This is one of those "majority rule, minority rights" type situations.
No, it isn't. There's no minority right being protected with preservation. "Liking old stuff" isn't a protected class, nor should it be.

It's an analogy. It seems odd that we would not protect and respect notable architecture. The Terrace was masterfully designed by a notable local architect, and was considered to be among the finest movie theaters in the nation. These considerations -- combined with the imminent threat of the wrecking ball from an otherwise negligent owner -- does mean that this building is deserving of special protections that we wouldn't grant to a backyard shed.
amiller92 wrote:Also, it's the opposite of checks and balances. Minnesota law apparently says there is no check on a historical resource designation once in place.
Historic preservation law IS a balance on a check. Without it, property owners who don't give a damn about art, history, etc. would cause far more notable buildings to fall -- with Penn Station being the epitome of this. We need historic preservation laws. Once a location has been deemed historic, I would expect that it be difficult to remove a designation unless there is a damn good reason for it. Similarly, I expect Constitutional Amendments to also be difficult (if not impossible) to undo.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby amiller92 » August 25th, 2016, 9:10 am

at40man wrote: It seems odd that we would not protect and respect notable architecture.
That would be odd. It is also odd that we apparently protect it now with no override by democratically elected government.
Historic preservation law IS a balance on a check. Without it, property owners who don't give a damn about art, history, etc. would cause far more notable buildings to fall
Checks and balances usually refers to limits on government power. You're talking about a limit on private property rights. Government action that takes away private rights is exactly what's supposed to be subject to checks and balances.
Once a location has been deemed historic, I would expect that it be difficult to remove a designation unless there is a damn good reason for it.
Okay, tell me how it gets removed where Minnesota law apparently allows a court to override the democratically elected city government from doing so?
Similarly, I expect Constitutional Amendments to also be difficult (if not impossible) to undo.
You didn't just equate non-democratic historical designation with a Constitutional Amendment, did you? Also, you know that there is an express procedure for amending the constitution? What's the procedure for de-designating a historic resource under Minnesota law?

I get that you like this property, and that I suffer from never having seen it in anything but its shuttered state, but that should be a separate issue from whether this system makes any sense.

EOst, I guess I don't know enough about how it works on the environmental side.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » August 25th, 2016, 10:45 am

amiller92 wrote:
at40man wrote: It seems odd that we would not protect and respect notable architecture.
That would be odd. It is also odd that we apparently protect it now with no override by democratically elected government.
The "democratically elected government" wouldn't override that. A city government has no place determining whether or not a building gets listed or de-listed from the National Register, nor should it.

The property owner would need to make a compelling case as to why the building is not historic, not the city. Right now the Terrace Theater is owned by an LLC from Delaware called BRE NON-CORE 2 OWNER B LLC.

It should also be further noted that the "democratically-elected" government also obfuscated, stone-walled, and was not forthcoming with Robbinsdale residents, particularly the ones who want to see the government act with more prudence. The government fell for the classic "hard sell". Grown adults should know better than to engage with salesmen who conduct business that way.
amiller92 wrote:
Historic preservation law IS a balance on a check. Without it, property owners who don't give a damn about art, history, etc. would cause far more notable buildings to fall
Checks and balances usually refers to limits on government power. You're talking about a limit on private property rights. Government action that takes away private rights is exactly what's supposed to be subject to checks and balances.
Any decent organization or process has checks and balances -- not just government. Historic preservation of notable architecture is a balance on a check of "private property rights" as it recognizes that there are certain instances when a private property owner may not act in the best interest of his property, and that certain property deserves to be preserved and protected.

For instance, any homeowner would not be allowed by the city to let his or her property fall into the type of disrepair that BRE NON-CORE 2 OWNER B LLC let the Terrace fall into.

amiller92 wrote:
Similarly, I expect Constitutional Amendments to also be difficult (if not impossible) to undo.
You didn't just equate non-democratic historical designation with a Constitutional Amendment, did you? Also, you know that there is an express procedure for amending the constitution? What's the procedure for de-designating a historic resource under Minnesota law?
No, I did not equate them. Again, it is an analogy-- an example to provide a point of comparison for a specific trait.
amiller92 wrote:I get that you like this property, and that I suffer from never having seen it in anything but its shuttered state, but that should be a separate issue from whether this system makes any sense.
...and that separate issue should be discussed on a separate thread apart from Robbinsdale development, no?

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » September 16th, 2016, 8:38 am

The Terrace recently had its day in court! Erik Hansen (attorney who also was behind the "Save Peavey Plaza" campaign) made some excellent arguments in favor of saving the theater.
Minneapolis, Minnesota (September 13, 2016) – Friends of the Historic Terrace had their day in court on Tuesday as the hearing to decide the fate of the Historic Terrace Theater in Robbinsdale was heard by Hennepin County District Judge Michael Browne. Friends of the Historic Terrace, a small grass roots group of predominantly Robbinsdale residents asked the court for a temporary restraining order to halt demolition of the 65 year old theatre.

Friends of the Historic Terrace filed a MERA (Minnesota Environmental Rights Act) lawsuit in Hennepin County District Court on August 23 against property owner Brixmor to save the Historic Terrace Theater from demolition. Judge Browne has taken the case under advisement and is expected to issue his decision within a week. Friends of the Terrace are seeking donations to help pay for legal costs at their website terracefriends.org.

The City of Robbinsdale’s Economic Development Authority (REDA), was not listed as a defendant in this case, yet last week chose to jump into the lawsuit by filing a motion asking Friends of the Historic Terrace for a $3.5 million dollar bond to “protect the public interest”.

Friends attorney Erik Hansen said in court Tuesday that this was the first case he was aware of where a city has come to court to advocate for the destruction of a historic building. And that the bond requests by the City ($3.5 Million) and by Brixmor ($3.2 Million) totaling nearly $7 Million dollars was in direct conflict with the intent of MERA. Hansen explained that the Legislature’s intention in passing MERA was to encourage citizens who lack financial resources to challenge development that would destroy natural, historic and cultural resources.

Hansen also pointed out that by advocating for demolition of the theater, a historic and cultural resource, the city through its REDA was in violation of MERA.

Hansen presented documents from National Register Historian Denis Gardner from the State Historic Preservation Office, stating that the Terrace would qualify for designation on the National Register of Historic Places. Affidavits were submitted to show that others have tried to purchase the theater, but Brixmor never returned their telephone calls. The attorney advocating demolition said Robbinsdale City Manager Marcia Glick and Inland Development CEO Kent Carlson are both working with HyVee to redevelop the property, although HyVee publicly stated on August 19th that it was putting its involvement in the project on hold.

On July 13, 2016 HyVee announced their intentions to demolish the historic theatre and build a 91,500 square foot big box store in its place. The Historic Terrace Theater was built in 1951, and was designed by prominent Twin Cities architects Liebenberg and Kaplan as their crowning achievement and final indoor movie theater. It has been closed since 1999.

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby Anondson » September 24th, 2016, 6:34 pm

New meetings on closing two of the four runways at the Crystal airport.

http://post.mnsun.com/2016/09/23/meetin ... klyn-park/

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby at40man » September 24th, 2016, 10:50 pm

Inland development rammed a hole through the Terrace, when they knew that a judge was on property signing an injunction. SMH ...

http://www.startribune.com/as-terrace-t ... 394690401/

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Re: Robbinsdale, Crystal & New Hope – General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » September 25th, 2016, 7:25 am

And then dumped part of the parking lot in it/
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