Edina Crossroads - 7200-7250 France (cancelled - see 7250 France for separate project)

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mattaudio
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Edina Crossroads - 7200-7250 France (cancelled - see 7250 France for separate project)

Postby mattaudio » July 11th, 2017, 8:28 am

Mod note: See viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4334 for separate project at 7250 France

Mixed-use plan calls for towers and bike bridge over France Avenue in Edina
The Crossroads project would create a bike bridge over France Avenue.
http://www.startribune.com/mixed-use-pl ... 433838033/

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 11th, 2017, 9:09 am

Oooo, can't wait to see the n'hood response!

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mister.shoes
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby mister.shoes » July 11th, 2017, 9:12 am

Is that rendering looking west along Gallagher? From atop the Container Store parking garage or thereabouts? It's incredibly disorienting!

It also looks very not-MN, for some reason.
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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Anondson » July 11th, 2017, 9:15 am

More whoa. I’m having trouble envisioning exactly which lots and buildings this is proposed for. Gonna have to dig into the submitted docs I guess?

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby xandrex » July 11th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Based on what the article describes, it looks like the rendering is indeed roughly where the Container Store is (or perhaps, facing from that direction and looking west/northwest.

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby Qhaberl » July 11th, 2017, 2:01 pm

It doesn't look like this project would have a very good frontage is on France Avenue. It looks like there's a large parking lot in the middle. Would be nice if there's parking could be underground the path and that space could be used or something.


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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby MNdible » July 11th, 2017, 2:18 pm

I understand that the parking lot showing up in that rendering isn't actually part of the project -- it's the parcel on the NE corner of the intersection that isn't controlled by the developers.

What confuses me is that the bridge is launching from the NW corner, but isn't the existing Nine Mile Creek Trail on the south side of Gallagher?

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby twincitizen » July 11th, 2017, 2:48 pm

Is that rendering looking west along Gallagher? From atop the Container Store parking garage or thereabouts? It's incredibly disorienting
It took me a while to realize that the bridge crosses the intersection diagonally, SE to NW

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Re: Southdale Area Development - Edina

Postby twincitizen » July 11th, 2017, 2:55 pm

I understand that the parking lot showing up in that rendering isn't actually part of the project -- it's the parcel on the NE corner of the intersection that isn't controlled by the developers.
AKA the Macy's Furniture property
What confuses me is that the bridge is launching from the NW corner, but isn't the existing Nine Mile Creek Trail on the south side of Gallagher?
Yep, the existing trail is on the south side of Gallagher. The diagonal running bridge (SE to NW corners of the intersection) doesn't seem to gel with that. Even if the bridge lands behind (west) of the 7250 France building, bikes/peds would still need to cross Gallagher at grade

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby grant1simons2 » July 11th, 2017, 3:55 pm

All I want for Minneapolis is one glassy tower. Is that too much to ask? Westin, Relfections and now this? Ugh.

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby sdho » July 11th, 2017, 8:49 pm

Seems like a nice enough project, but a different image came to mind for me than the Highline:

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Nathan
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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby Nathan » July 13th, 2017, 4:49 am

The bizjournal article has a site plan that details the bike path routing and may answer some location questions.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... tment.html

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby mattaudio » July 13th, 2017, 9:01 am

Image
That routing doesn't really seem conducive to bicycling...

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby mister.shoes » July 13th, 2017, 10:08 am

To me, this screams "we have two parcels that aren't in the best location relative to each other and the trail, but it would look cool in our proposal if we could throw a bridge over this intersection so let's hope no one notices we made the trail way harder to use".
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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby BoredAgain » July 13th, 2017, 10:42 am

To me, this screams "we have two parcels that aren't in the best location relative to each other and the trail, but it would look cool in our proposal if we could throw a bridge over this intersection so let's hope no one notices we made the trail way harder to use".
I think you're right. I've never biked this trail, but I use a lot of other trails and having this one make several sharp turns to gain elevation before crossing France traveling from East to West would probably make me just wait at street level. Crossing at street level is more direct and highly visible. Even people biking at higher speeds (the lycra crowd) wouldn't enjoy the bridge because of sharp turns and path crowding through the elevated patio areas.

If they want to bridge the intersection (I see trail advantages there) and tie it to the new buildings (I see commercial advantages there), then the bridge should start back at the curve in Gallagher, cross, Gallagher with a curving bridge to access the south side of the upper level of the new building on the East side of France, cross France, and probably go around the West side building similar to what is already shown. This trail bridge would connect more directly on both ends of the trail (smoother flow) and eliminate some sharp turns. If well designed, the path would also avoid conflicts with the building amenity zones.

This would cost more because it would start on someone else's property and a curving bridge design would also add expense.

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 13th, 2017, 11:41 am

To be fair, the Nine Mile Creek route west of here is a total mess. Not just because it follows the windy creek, but also tons of snake points to cross roads. Really, a direct route underpass similar to the one over at York would be nice, but it it's not gonna happen. I'm guessing that, unlike many other western burb rails-to-trails, this one will be much more focused on recreation.

Also, while this is inconvenient and out of the way, it's not THAT different than the Sabo Bridge, which people seem to like and I feel like I'm the only one who complains about what a PITA it is to huff up the hill and add 1,000' of travel distance. So, I dunno.

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby xandrex » July 13th, 2017, 11:53 am

Yeah, I was going to say, the Sabo Bridge requires elevation, a road crossing, and at least one sharp turn (if you're either coming from or turn onto the Hiawatha Trail into downtown). This bridge isn't that different. It even looks like the Sabo Bridge!

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby EOst » July 13th, 2017, 12:27 pm

That looks a fair bit sharper than the Sabo Bridge. More like the the sharp, blind turn on that bridge over Lyndale.

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby kirby96 » July 13th, 2017, 12:30 pm

Yeah, I was going to say, the Sabo Bridge requires elevation, a road crossing, and at least one sharp turn (if you're either coming from or turn onto the Hiawatha Trail into downtown). This bridge isn't that different. It even looks like the Sabo Bridge!
I was thinking of that too. I mean, yeah, the aerial view makes it clear this proposed trail is pretty much a cluster, but I gotta say when I weave through the Sabo bridge area, I never even really think about it. When I think about behavior on the ground, I don't think I'd divert to the street here, I think I'd just meander through without giving it much of a second thought (well, maybe if it was raining...).

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Re: Edina Crossroads Project - 7200, 7201, 7250 France

Postby BoredAgain » July 13th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Yeah, I was going to say, the Sabo Bridge requires elevation, a road crossing, and at least one sharp turn (if you're either coming from or turn onto the Hiawatha Trail into downtown). This bridge isn't that different. It even looks like the Sabo Bridge!
I assumed that they took the look of the sabo bridge for this rendering specifically so people would make the connection.

Sharp turns to change onto different trails don't count in my book. The Sabo bridge has one 90 degree turn on one end. The other end is smooth and continuous. I still see lots of people crossing at grade because "hills are tough". This proposed bridge has 4 90 degree turns, 2 45 degree turns and one 180 degree hairpin turn. It also requires a person to turn off of the obvious forward path where as you have to turn off the path to bypass the Sabo bridge. The at grade road crossings are unfortunate, but my experience is that almost all cars stop and wait.

This proposed bridge is clearly worse from an integration stand point.


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