Mall of America - Bloomington

Twin Cities Suburbs
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Sacrelicio
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Sacrelicio » November 30th, 2015, 11:31 am

go4guy wrote:
QuietBlue wrote:I worked downtown for almost a decade, so I'm familiar with the lunch rushes. But I also saw how dead many of those places were in the evening and on weekends, if they were even open, unless they got event business. So a location like MOA makes sense due to the traffic. And if (more likely when) they put one in Minneapolis, someplace like Uptown or near the U of M may be a better fit.

I've never been to one, so I have to ask -- what's the big deal about this place? People rave about it, and I'm sure it's good, but it doesn't seem that different from, say, a Smashburger. And a chain restaurant that is mostly in downtowns is still a chain restaurant, which is why I find it amusing that people rip on the suburbs for having a lot of chain restaurants, but give this one a pass. Maybe downtown could use more burger options, but Minneapolis as a whole does pretty well on that front with lots of good non-chain restaurants already.
I have never understood the love for this place. I went to the one in Miami, and was not impressed at all, and it was way overpriced. I would say that In-N-Out Burger is 100 times better. But with their distribution model, we will never get one.
What's the distribution model, and why would that prevent us from getting one?

twinkess
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby twinkess » November 30th, 2015, 12:24 pm

Sacrelicio wrote:
go4guy wrote:
QuietBlue wrote:I worked downtown for almost a decade, so I'm familiar with the lunch rushes. But I also saw how dead many of those places were in the evening and on weekends, if they were even open, unless they got event business. So a location like MOA makes sense due to the traffic. And if (more likely when) they put one in Minneapolis, someplace like Uptown or near the U of M may be a better fit.

I've never been to one, so I have to ask -- what's the big deal about this place? People rave about it, and I'm sure it's good, but it doesn't seem that different from, say, a Smashburger. And a chain restaurant that is mostly in downtowns is still a chain restaurant, which is why I find it amusing that people rip on the suburbs for having a lot of chain restaurants, but give this one a pass. Maybe downtown could use more burger options, but Minneapolis as a whole does pretty well on that front with lots of good non-chain restaurants already.
I have never understood the love for this place. I went to the one in Miami, and was not impressed at all, and it was way overpriced. I would say that In-N-Out Burger is 100 times better. But with their distribution model, we will never get one.
What's the distribution model, and why would that prevent us from getting one?
http://www.sfgate.com/technology/busine ... 066438.php
There are no freezers or microwaves in In-N-Out restaurants because the company has a strict policy of serving its food fresh. Therefore, all locations must be within 300 miles of the company's distribution facilities.

Didier
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Didier » December 3rd, 2015, 3:09 pm

Not specifically Mall of America, but a pretty amazing view at what the area looked like when Met Stadium opened in the 1950s.

https://twitter.com/webertom1/status/672453913233121283

nordeast homer
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby nordeast homer » December 4th, 2015, 12:09 pm

When did they build the airport? From that angle the airport should be on the upper right hand side of the photo as home plate was oriented on the SW corner.

ztr421
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby ztr421 » December 4th, 2015, 12:41 pm

I think the airport isn't visible due to the angle of the photo. Here are a few aerial photos from 1960. The current airport terminal was under construction in 1960 (the MSP site says construction started in 1958, and it opened in 1962); the runways and old airport are visible in the photo.

Stadium:
http://geo.lib.umn.edu/Hennepin_County/ ... Y-1-66.jpg

Airport:
http://geo.lib.umn.edu/Hennepin_County/ ... Y-1-51.jpg

trigonalmayhem

Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 9th, 2015, 11:10 am

I thought the east lot had a ton of restrictions on development because it's directly under the flight path for one of the runways at MSP? Like there's a lot of uses that aren't allowed and the actual size is restricted pretty heavily on the portions they're even allowed to build on. If it were just a Bloomington or even state law issue the mall could easily get it changed and some tax money thrown at them, but I think it's federal FAA rules so good luck there.

mattaudio
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby mattaudio » December 9th, 2015, 11:14 am

Yep, we've discussed this way upthread: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=48&start=380

MOA and MAC swapped parcels back in 2002 as Runway 17/35 was under construction. The old MOA Grand (former DoubleTree) high rise hotel was demolished. And now there's a Runway Protection Zone that impacts the parcels roughly east of 24th Avenue as they are developed.

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HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » December 9th, 2015, 4:27 pm

mattaudio wrote:Yep, we've discussed this way upthread: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=48&start=380

MOA and MAC swapped parcels back in 2002 as Runway 17/35 was under construction. The old MOA Grand (former DoubleTree) high rise hotel was demolished. And now there's a Runway Protection Zone that impacts the parcels roughly east of 24th Avenue as they are developed.
But they aren't as restrictive as the former DoubleTree lot. All you have to do is look at all the new hotels being constructed north of that land. It's not about throwing anything at anybody. If the land use works with the approved restrictions, it's good to go. The MOA wouldn't have bought the land if they didn't see potential future options. There's no reason to pay the taxes on land they can't develop.

mattaudio
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby mattaudio » December 9th, 2015, 5:11 pm

HiawathaGuy wrote: It's not about throwing anything at anybody.
? no idea what that means.

The new JW Marriott, Raddison Blu, and offic towers are *not* in any runway protection zone. They are west of the centerline of Rwy 17/35 and the trapezoidal runway protection areas.

The DoubleTree / MOA Grand Hotel was in Runway Protection Zone A, which basically necessitates zero structure. It was demolished, along with another low-rise hotel to the north (I forget the name) and I even seem to recall a gas station being demolished on the very east end of the Ramada (Thunderbird) parking lot up against 28th Ave.

The site we're discussing here to the east of MOA is Runway Protection Zone B. State law and FAA guidelines dictate development here. https://www.mspairport.com/docs/about-m ... ility.aspx
Prohibited: "Churches, hospitals, schools, theaters, stadiums, hotels, motels, trailer courts, campgrounds, and other places of frequent public or semi-public assembly"
That doesn't bode well for development.

Also, MOA does not own the superblock east of 28th Ave S. "Delta Metro Investments" owns it. MOA *once* owned it, but traded for the Met Center site (now MOA Phase II) over a decade ago in a MAC-facilitated deal due to this limitation.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Wedgeguy » December 9th, 2015, 9:54 pm

Only part of the MOA Grand was in the flight zone, but you can't just tears off the back half off a Hotel and expect it to still function. With the other smaller hotel only a quarter of the hotel was outside the FAA zone. So that basically meant the demise of both and the gas station. The gas station I believe was a Super America.

MNdible
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby MNdible » December 9th, 2015, 11:06 pm

Matt, didn't the MOA have a deal in place to buy back the parcel that they'd swapped away? I can't find a link for that, but am pretty sure that it was reported within the last year or so.

maxbaby
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby maxbaby » December 10th, 2015, 6:58 am

The other hotel was a Sheraton.

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HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » December 10th, 2015, 3:14 pm

mattaudio wrote:
HiawathaGuy wrote: It's not about throwing anything at anybody.
? no idea what that means.
This was in regards to trigonalmayhem's comment about the city or state throwing tax money at the mall to get them to develop the land or whatever.
mattaudio wrote:The new JW Marriott, Raddison Blu, and offic towers are *not* in any runway protection zone. They are west of the centerline of Rwy 17/35 and the trapezoidal runway protection areas.

As for you comment on the new hotels - I wasn't talking about those. And I'm well aware that the Blu and JW are west of the runway protection areas. I was referring to the new hotel that opened this fall on the NE corner of Lindau and 24th, and the now-under-construction hotel in the SE corner of that intersection.
mattaudio wrote:Also, MOA does not own the superblock east of 28th Ave S. "Delta Metro Investments" owns it. MOA *once* owned it, but traded for the Met Center site (now MOA Phase II) over a decade ago in a MAC-facilitated deal due to this limitation.
Um, you're wrong... from October 22, 2014:
HiawathaGuy wrote:They're just a flood of news lately...

Mall of America buys parking lot next door (locked)
The mall exercised its long held option on the site, just east at 8200 28th Ave. S. and 8201 24th Ave. S. in Bloomington, in closing the deal for $22.78 million Tuesday

Image
Image

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby VacantLuxuries » December 10th, 2015, 5:43 pm

Maybe long term they're looking to develop a phase 3 out of their existing parking ramps and want to use the lot as a single, gigantic lot. Given the restrictions on use of the land, I can't imagine what else they'd do with it.

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HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » December 11th, 2015, 10:34 am

mattaudio wrote:The site we're discussing here to the east of MOA is Runway Protection Zone B. State law and FAA guidelines dictate development here. https://www.mspairport.com/docs/about-m ... ility.aspx
Prohibited: "Churches, hospitals, schools, theaters, stadiums, hotels, motels, trailer courts, campgrounds, and other places of frequent public or semi-public assembly"
That doesn't bode well for development.
Also, I'll point out that there's currently a Fairfield Inn & Suites already within Zone B. Plus there's a newly opened TownPlace Suites by Marriott, an under-constructcion AC Hotel by Marriott across the street, and there's a planned (yet-to-be-named) hotel at American Blvd. & 28th Ave. S. (immediately north of the Blue Line park & ride): http://finance-commerce.com/2014/08/hot ... p-airport/.

If hotels & motels are prohibited in Zone B - that doesn't seem to be stopping them from being built... I'm not sure if the State Law has been modified or changed to allow this? But I think it's fair to assume that if MOA has plans that can be designed to 'work' within the City's development guidelines, they'll expand eastward.

Malladmirer
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Malladmirer » December 16th, 2015, 2:35 pm

Anything new besides the East lot?

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HiawathaGuy
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby HiawathaGuy » December 16th, 2015, 3:02 pm

Malladmirer wrote:Anything new besides the East lot?
Nothing new since the announcement for the further north expansion - which I'd think we'll see more about this winter. As they want to break ground in spring.

Malladmirer
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Malladmirer » December 17th, 2015, 5:44 pm

I think the mall of america needs a giant indoor park with some waterfalls and places to relax after a long day of shopping.

grant1simons2
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby grant1simons2 » December 17th, 2015, 5:46 pm

I think the Mall of America is on its way out in the next 20-30 years.

Daboink
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Re: Mall of America - Bloomington

Postby Daboink » December 17th, 2015, 8:26 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:I think the Mall of America is on its way out in the next 20-30 years.
If you're still living here then you'd better hope not, considering the destination it continues to be for the rest of the country and world. Good luck making up that state sales tax revenue somewhere else.


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